The American Beagler Forum

SPEED over LINE CONTROL or LINE CONTROL over SPEED ???

I know many people out here cross their speed demons with thier line control or good noses .

Would you prefer to cross the line control male over the speed female ?

Would you prefer to cross the speed male over the line control female ?

It doesn't matter either way ?

speed is good but not to the point of to much would you rather have a hound that over runs five or ten feet and smart enough to go back to where he smelled it last pick it up and keep running or a hound that over runs 50 foot that has a check aea of 10 acres and jumps another rabbit than the one he was running thats not a hound in my book just an idiot i see these hounds alot in trials but thats my opinion and the only person that has to like them is the one feeding it me myself i like a fast dog that runs a nice line i can handle one that over runs some but not far that comes with speed he just has to have the brains to relize what he has done and go back and find the track

I dont know if it matters, but I would probably go with a line male, over speed female. I really think you will get some that run tight line and some fast. Just like you wouldnt get med. size dogs out of one short, and one tall, most would take after one or the other.

Speed is no good without some sort of control. The dog has to be able to lock and drive and be accountable for the rabbit. Move the track when he has it , know when he hasn't got it and search after the loss with method.

i crossed a female i had the was for sure fast but ruf some days she wasnt to bad others she looked dumb,,,,, the male was a pp champ and a lp champ but ran a good line the pup so far is 9 months old and runs a good line but he wants the front like his mom ...looks like hew maybe a real good dog as long as his brain stay up with his feet lol.

Speed for speeds sake is no good!
We should be looking for SPEED WITH CONTROL in both hounds
that are bred to sacrifice line control for speed is a bad way to go
for sure
John O

You have to have all of the above.
It is the balance that makes the dog.

Speed doesn't impress me.
I like a dog with a big nose and medium speed.
The kind of nose that when the pack breaks down on a road crossing (because the rabbit ran up the road and then went a across) and one dog never lifts its head, never stops progressing the line, goes up the road, then cross, and takes the pack with it.
That dog just got it done when the others blew up.

A fast dog is a fast dog, big deal.
Explain how a fast dog will put rabbits in my vest?

I'm not sure I understand your question Jude, but if you are talking about breeding a fast dog with poor line control to a slower dog with good line control I don't think that will work very well.

I like dogs with lots of speed AND good line control. The only way to get dogs like that is to find some that already have both and cross them on each other. To me, a fast dog that is rough is a cull. I certainly would not breed one hoping for pups that are better than they are.

SilverZuk, I hunt hare all winter long in Minnesota. I have found that a good fast dog that can stay on the line will be able to perform better on those realy bad days. I am talking about running on old, hard crusty snow in cold temps. I believe a dog needs a much better than average nose to be able to run fast with good line control on the good days. Rough dogs are rough in part because they don't have enough nose, or enough brains to know how to use it. Slower, line control dogs may or may not have enough nose. I have seen some that do, but not many. Trouble with slower dogs is, sometimes the hare won't wait around for them. Sometimes they just keep running, getting farther and farther ahead of the dog until the dog runs out of scent. Faster dogs push the hare harder and don't give them time to do anything but run, making for an easier trail to follow. Of course, when the snow gets more than 2 feet deep, there are no fast dogs

Guys I'm by NO means suggesting breeding culls . It's just a question .

What I'm should have said in my question was the dogs aren't PERFECT in my mind but they're also not culls , each needs just a little to be perfect .

I do however strive to have the perfect hound although I've yet to see one

This is only a scenario ? If I breed a great female , I plan to breed to a great male .

I agree with Grim and Brad. I personally want a dog to put as much pressure as possible on the rabbit with minimal losses and right back on it so to me there both important. I don't want a bunch of cuttin, swingin, racin and silent running, of course the flip side of that I don't want a bunch of trailing, hangin up, babblin, backtrackin junk either.

People have a lot of opinions about speed. I like to evaluate the complete race or as I tell my buddies how well the dog gets from a to z not a to b.

A dog too fast has to have the conditions be perfect for him to run and how often does that happen.

A dog too slow can't get the rabbit out of bad briar bed so somewhere in between. I just perfer the more aggressive end.

I LOOK FOR SPEED AND LINE,I USED TO LIKE THE ROUGH DOGS,WICH,I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THEM,BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE ROUGH DOGS SWARPIN AND SWINGIN ARE MORE PRONE TO SPLITS,AND AFTER MAKIN IT TO THE SEMIS LAST YEAR OF THE WORLD HUNT,AND HAVIN MY DOG SPLIT 4 TIMES AND LOOSE BY ONE CHECK,I SAID THE HECK WITH SARPIN AND SWINGIN HOUNDS,NOW,IF I COULD DROP 150 LBS,OR FIND A GOOD HANDLER WHO CAN STAY SOBER ENOUGH TILL THE HUNT IS OVER,THAN I MAY GAT ANOTHER SWINGER.

BUT,AS FOR THE BREEDING QUESTION,ANYONE THAT SAW DOZER RUN KNEW HE WAS ROUGH,BUT MAN,HE HA THE FOOT,WELL I BRED HIM TO A FEMALE THAT WAS SUPER CLEAN AND FAST,AND HUNTED HARD,AND THE CROSS PRODUCED HARD HUNTIN HOUNDS,WITH LINE AND FOOT,SHOULD BE SOMETHIN TO SEE IN A YEAR OR SO

Run It Too Catch It. There is plenty of good fast dogs that can hold the line. Swingers aint what they used to be. People are figuring it out better
Than years past. Northway over almost anything appears to have what i like as far as control. Sock It To Me adds the punch for me.T-Rex has produced a unique style of mouth as well as bottomless end.

TomMN wrote:Trouble with slower dogs is, sometimes the hare won't wait around for them. Sometimes they just keep running, getting farther and farther ahead of the dog until the dog runs out of scent. Faster dogs push the hare harder and don't give them time to do anything but run, making for an easier trail to follow. Of course, when the snow gets more than 2 feet deep, there are no fast dogs

I had the exact opposite problem.
Too much pressure on cottontail and they will hit a hole or squirt out of its circle and go somewhere else.
When you have to pull several shots a year because your dog is about to catch the rabbit, your dog catches a few rabbits, and your chases seem to be ending at a hole before the first circle.
Those are all signs that your dog is too fast and putting too much pressure on.

Obviously it didn't happen all the time, but noticed with fast dogs I kill a whole lot less rabbits.

When I had a brace of medium speed dogs, most of the time the rabbit came loping by and made for a lot easier shots.

I like a big nose, brains, and medium speed.
I understand those are not hare hounds. I have never even seen a hare.