Read This (Not about Dogs)

[Larry G]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071008/ap_ ... ng_teacher

[siriusbeagles]

I am a teacher and I have a concelled weapons permit. While I agree that guns have no place in school I have also been at schools where guns have been under control of students and I personally was physically assulted, not with a gun but a fist. Security guards have guns and they have less training and less intelegence than I or my fellow teachers have and would rather see us with the weapons than the guards, at least some of them. Maybe if more teachers were permitted to carry guns we would have more students learning and few incidents of violence.

[cabin fever]

[quote="siriusbeagles"] Security guards have guns and they have less training and less intelegence than I or my fellow teachers have and would rather see us with the weapons than the guards,

[Tim H]

Security guards have guns and they have less training and less intelegence than I or my fellow teachers

If the guards know how to spell or use spell check then your point has not proven to be true. Try intelligence.

Maybe if more teachers were permitted to carry guns we would have more students learning and few incidents of violence.

Maybe if we had more teachers concentrating on teaching we would have more incidents of students learning. The problems in the school system is that the kids are not being taught. It is not that there are not enough guns in the teachers hands.

DedRabbits, one thing at a time, we're working with a teacher that has a weapon.

[DedRabbits]

Or assaulted.

[beaglerun]

An opinion is a belief held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge (Webster's New Riverside Dictionary).

An opinion can also be a judgement of the value of a person or thing(Webster's New Riverside Dicationary).

Let's place a higher value on the teachers, security guards, and most importantly the children!

I am also an educator! I was sadden by the writer who places less value on the security guards and more on him/her self. I was also sadden by the writer who stated that students are not learning because teachers are not teaching.

Take those opinions that you hold with confidence and substantiate them with POSITIVE knowledge. If you are not already, get involved with you local government.

The issues here are national issues! America as a whole has lost it's way. If OUR kids are violent, and OUR schools need security guards; then we are forcing OUR schools (K-12, colleges, and universities) to deal with issues that it didn't create nor is it prepared for.

Years of research proves that children learn 90% of what they will need to know to succeed in life by age 5. Formal education doesn't start until age 5, and it takes 12+ years to develop the last 10%.

WE are ALL to blame for OUR childrens violent behavior, and lack of academic perfromance! Let's face it, times have changed. We must change with it if we are going to catch up with the rest of the world.
America is predicted to be the newest third world counrty within the next 50 years! Now you may understand why I was so sadden.

BeagRun[/b]

[Jack]

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Rings true today more than ever. Control starts in the home. No Father in the home , less control. Moms train with their heart, most of them.

[Tim H]

beaglerun, your post is an example of how the education system responds to reality. Deny any accountability and cite studies done by other educators within the education system to substantiate that the educators and education system are not accountable for anything.

The only ones who don't see that the education system is in deep trouble are the ones who are benefiting from it.

I am involved in local government and have been very involved in my children's education. I have home schooled my children as well as enrolled them in the public schools. The public schools have insisted on mediocrity rather than excellence. That is why I am going back to home schooling and I am seeing my children raise their standards again and be excited about learning.

There are some good teachers out there but those who think the system is working and is worthy of defending are not dealing with reality.

counrty , and lack of academic perfromance.

Spelling is something I stress when home schooling, is it any wonder that most spelling bees are won by home educated children?

America is predicted to be the newest third world counrty within the next 50 years! Now you may understand why I was so sadden.

I assume the education system is taken into consideration in this prediction.

[S.R.Patch]

When my father whipped me, you could count on it being done when needed and consistently. When my grandmother whipped me, she always said, "this hurts me more than it's going to hurt you", when it was over we were both crying. My mother taught school for forty years, I never missed a day of school. If I got a whipping at school, I got another one when I got home. When I got hired in my job, that was one main reason they hired me, they couldn't believe I never missed school, they wanted someone who would be at work every day.
These things my wife and I learned from our parents, we past on to our children. They both finished valedictorian of their class.
The government can't provide what only a home can give. The way people reason now is, to treat the symptom instead of attacking the disease.
Have you noticed, commitment has become a thing of the past?

[S.R.Patch]

Tim H,
My mother loved all her children at school, many over the years have returned to thank her for her caring and learning experience. The last few years were hard on her, years after she retired she told me about a couple in her class the told her, "you go to hell, you can't touch me". I begged her to tell me their names, , she said no, I just feel so sorry for them.
She still ask my wife how school is going and about all the children, she still misses it and loved her job.

If I gave you 25 pups to train, that had had no handling done and they were all 10 months old, what do you think would be your success rate for the group?

I know your proud of your home scholing and I applaud your commitment to your children but, they are your own and only few compared to what a teacher has placed upon them each year...

[Tim H]

S.R. Patch, as I said previously, there are some good teachers out there and it sounds like your mother was one of them.

The problem is the system is not educating the kids. The schools for a long period were dumbing down the curriculum so it would look like they were doing a better job of educating, now that there are mandated testing systems in place the problem is being exposed and they want the testing standards to be lowered so once again it will look like they are doing better. That has nothing to do with whether or not the parents are disciplining their children at home.

Are there multiple contributors to the problems in the education system? Absolutely, let's just not release those who are central to the problem from any responsibility.

I'm not someone who thinks home schooling and public schools are in opposition. I believe parents should choose what gives their children the best education they can get.

[beaglerun]

Tim perhaps you think I was attacking you and that I am on the band wagon that says public education does no wrong. Sorry; I'm not, and I don't! I fight the system EVERYDAY. I am saying that schools (public, private, or home school) were not designed to fix social problems.

I am one of the few educators who support home schooling, school choice, and private school vouchers!

My cites were not from other educators. The one about America being a Third world country was conducted by NASA and supported by a Dateline article, Stupid in America. The other cite about how much children learn is supported by every culture that has ever existed. Have your children do a cutural study of current and past civilizations and you will find that their emphasis is childrearing is different from what we now practice in America.

Tim you wouldn't be homeschooling if there was not a problem. The problem however isn't the school. Your children will one day work with, live next to, or marry some of the same issues you are working so hard at getting them away from.

I am not attacking you Tim, I am only saying that WE have our focus on the symptoms and not on the illness. Let stop treating the wounds, and instead eliminated the causes.

[S.R.Patch]

You didn't answer my question...

paste; "If I gave you 25 pups to train, that had had no handling done and they were all 10 months old, what do you think would be your success rate for the group? "

Remember, I expect you to make them ALL productive RABBITDAWGS...

OH, and some are kennel shy, others are fighters, some are from deer runners and other that won't hunt at all... your a good teacher tho, so that shouldn't matter at all.
To be honest tho...I can't find another trainer that will take them...

[Tim H]

S.R. Patch, I would expect my success rate with the dogs to be very high. I would hire the right people to help me so that each person would have only the number and type of dogs that their skill and talent would allow them to be successful with.

The school system has chosen to use it's funds on other things.

[S.R.Patch]

Come on now Tim, I gave you the same class size my mother was expected to teach and had done so for 40 years successfully, untill the end when order in the class room was lost due to restraint placed on the teacher. She could do nothing, the principal could do nothing but send the little snappers home. The kids knew the rules better than the teachers but couldn't/wouldn't do their school work.
These pups are not dumb, they know well how to work the system. They play their parents like puppets...