The American Beagler Forum

I was just wondering why UKC hasn't took off here in the deep south. I have never attended an UKC trial but I would like too. It seems to be really popular in the mid-west.

yes it is and I am dropping the AKC papers on my dogs and going all UKC but will still breed the same dogs. One reason the hunt is lacking in SPO dogs is because they don't give much credit for it in a dogs score while the UKC places a premium on first strike and awards 100 points for it.

Bob, Please dont lump the Lone Star Assn of Texas(SPO) hounds with the deep south. We got plenty of hunt and search over here as we have to have. Just come & take a look.

I've never been to an AKC SPO trial, so I may be out of line. But I have read and studied the rules of all trial formats in deciding which ones to go to. SPO rules say the dogs may or may not search for the game. To me that doesn't make sence. You can't run a rabbit until you find it and I'm not going into the brush to get it out, that's what the dogs are for.

Just my opinion. I'll check it out someday though.

Apologies to the great state of Texas. I shouldn't generalize and usually try to avoid that problem. My mistake!!!

kjohns, All packs are cast to search for game in AKC SPO. Now as to what the judges do from there is another thing. But I am sure there is a certain amout of bad judging in all formats and all registries. Most just ignorance.
Bob, never been to the Mid West area but from what I see speed & drive get lots of credit there. Could this be why UKC has done good there I know a group East Texas had a UKC club for a couple of years. Did not survive. Now they are trying PKC. Have had AKC Large Pack over there for over 50 years & SPO for 20+

UKC gives lots of points for speed and drive per say. it has to be done right but again depends on the judges etc. I like an SPO type dog that is quick and has lots of hunt, plus he must pack honestly and be honest with a cold cold nose. I figure that covers it.

Guys, all of my dogs are out of southern SPO lines (Robs Diamond II, Playboy, ect) and they have plenty of hunt. They get after them bunnies out of the box. Only one of my dogs is what I would consider a more northern hound and he is out of Buck's Branch Kalagha but he is no different than these others.

You better have a dog that will hunt or you'll be in for a long day. I don't jump rabbits for my dogs, they jump them.

I was just curious why UKC either 1) hasnt tried to get more clubs down here or 2) if it has, why it hasn't went over. Just curious.

One thing the UKC does to promote a dogs desire to hunt is a rule that says if a dog goes for any 5 minute period without hunting he will be scratched. This eliminates those dogs from the winners circle. I have nothing against AKC beagles all of mine are AKC and UKC registered. Speed and drive does have a lot to do with winning but line control does too. One without the other just does't cut it. Some of the dogs I hunt came from the Deep South and they do just fine in the UKC. When the going gets tough in the deep south dogs may not be able to run as fast as they could in the mid west so midwest dogs may not look too good down there. But the same applies for deep south dogs up north. The UKC has a tendency to move around the world hunt so that different parts of the country get to host it. If the deep south becomes more involved in the UKC I'm sure the Big Hunt will be down there one day. This year it is going to be held here in Virginia. We have some pretty tough running here sometimes. I've been up north and down south and seen both types of dogs run here and depending on the weather, conditions and where you draw out it could be anybody's ballgame. Come on up in Oct. It is only about 6 - 8 hours from Alabama. It's about the same from Ohio, Illinois and Michigan. You can all meet here and take a good look at each others dogs.

Swamper is right. The ol' Saw Briars are super hell on man & beast alike. Have seen some hounds that were not use to them have second thoughts at first! Hound got to have "lots of bottom" to take 'em...

I think I read your post wrong Rosewood so just to be sure let me ask this.

YOu said that when the going gets tough, southern dogs can't run as good as they do in the midwest. I think I misunderstood that comment, not sure. My dogs run just fine when the going gets tough, yes, they slow down a bit but they can run the rabbit. Maybe you meant that they would run better up there when the going gets tough. Not sure about that one. Down here where I run, speed is not always good because of the thickness of things. However, fast dogs do fine in the open fields and woods. MIne can drive a rabbit with the best of them when conditions allow but will slow down and run the rabbit when the scenting is bad. I imagine they do the same up there.

I have a question about UKC is someone knowledgable has the time to answer. My question is not meant as a bash to UKC, but an honest question that concerns me after reading the UKC rules. I have never trialed UKC so I really may not totally understand, hence my question.

My understanding is that the hounds are cast to search. A rabbit is jumped and no scoring takes place until the rabbit is circled and the line marked "after the first circle". Correct? OK, (assuming that part is correct!) the judge and handlers all have a say in the scoring. The scoring is based on speed and drive and the handlers and judge stay basically together and call dogs on a check, etc. All must agree on the scoring of calling dogs. Correct so far? Ok, here in lies my problem: How does the judge and handlers know what exactly the pack is doing in the check area if they stay together (I'm assuming some distance on occasion from the check area)? How does the judge/handlers know which dog is babbling, backtracking and excessively swinging if no judge(s) are on top of the action to see it? During the race, same question? How is it know if a dog is racing the line, cheating obstacles, etc??? Or does these running actions not matter??

As I said, I'm mostly in the dark on UKC except for reading the rulebook. It sounds like UKC hunters have lots of fun (most important thing, by the way! ) and that they (UKC) has a great bunch of folks participating. I just have serious questions on the running rules (IF I understand them right, which I may or may not!).

Thanks for anyone who can educate me on the UKC running rules!

BTW, there are no UKC clubs close to me either AlSwamper. Dont really know why, but AKC and ARHA are the only games in town here. I think it has alot to do with a "regional" thing.

Just curious Bob why you would drop papers when you can have both. May have misunderstood post.

Hello Darrin, I went to an UKC hunt in May and I am by no means an expert but here goes. The UKC awards strike points. The first dog to strike on a track gets a hundred points the 2nd dog gets either 85 or 75(can't remember) and each consequential dog that strikes in is awarded points based on the order in which they bark on the track for the first time. The only thing that I didn't like about this is the cold trailer gets rewarded sometimes more than the dog that actually jumped the rabbit. For example in my cast Dog #1 opened up and was struck in he continued to cold trail. Dog #2 opened on the cold trail and was struck in by his owner, he gets the 2nd position. My dog(this one)doesn't cold trail. He comes in and jumps the rabbit. He gets 3rd position. So scoring goes Dog 1(100) Dog 2(75) Dog 3(the dog that jumped the rabbit (50) and dog 4(25). I didn't like that particular rule but it is the rule so you abide by it. Now that the rabbit is up and running the judge(who also has a dog in the cast, which is not a problem at all) and all of the handlers stay together. When the rabbit circles you try to cut him off as if you were hunting and when you see him you mark an imaginary line where he crossed. The dogs are given speed and drive points based on the order in which they cross this line. A check in a UKC hunt is not like a check in ARHA, In UKC all dogs must be quiet for 1 solid minute before the check is open. If a dog opens you start the 1 minute over again. (In ARHA a check for LP is anything 15 seconds or over and dogs don't have to be quiet, just not make any progress) I liked some of what I saw in the Ukc rules and I also like some of the ARHA. The perfect format would be a combination of the 2. As far as calling your dog. You have to strike your dog in to the judge by the 3rd bark or he is scratched, so you better know your dog or have a handler that knows him well. I enjoyed the hunt that I attended and plan on trialing some more in the UKC format. I give UKC credit for one thing, they have the best looking registration out of all of the registries out their to include AKC. They include how many pups have been sired by a dog as well as how many are champions right on the registration papers.


Big Dog

Thanks Big Dog for the "striking" part but I have never been able to get answers on what DarrinG asked either. Or, as Darrin said, are these issues irrelevant to UKC as they see it. In extremely thick brush a bad swinging hound could get the front (cheating) and never be caught doing it...I guess what I mean is that before I bred to a male I would want to give him a lot closer look than what seems to be seen in the UKC competitions.