To Pack or Not to Pack?

HarleyPA · Post by **HarleyPA** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:21 pm

I'm just looking for an opinion or the general consensus on here.

Would you rather have a dog that slotted up with the rest of the pack no matter what or would you rather have a dog that runs its own rabbit?

I'm talking about a dog that if it has the ability to run faster, it won't because it wants to be with the pack. On the opposite side, a dog that if it can run faster it does. Not a run for the sake of running dog, but a dog that just has better abilities than the rest of the pack, and will run away from it.

What's your preference?

khensler01 · Post by **khensler01** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:33 pm

I would rather have the one that runs the rabbit to best of abilty no matter what the others do as long as he does it right. might be hard to match up with another hound but there out there. I've had the same problem, hard to decide what to do.I kept the better dog and tried to match up with one that comes close to same ability and that may take several dogs to find the right one. Also depends on what style you like and how much money you what to spend to get it. The hounds that have that extra edge are not a dime a dozen.just my 2 cents worth Ken

burbba · Post by **burbba** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:36 pm

VERY interesting question.

To me, I want a dog to run his/her own rabbit, BUT, I will not put 2 or more dogs in a pack that are different speeds. If you run a dog that is a full step or more faster than the rest, its going to mess them all up.

To me, I want a dog to run their own rabbit, to an extent. If a dog gets a check, they should all go to that dog. If a dog has a break, they should all search in that loss area for the scent.

I run a much more conservative dog than most on this board. I run SPO/GDB style dogs and prefer control over speed. No matter the conditions, all of my/our dogs should still be the same speed. Sometimes pretty quick, sometimes slow. I've seen people run multiple dogs, of different speeds, and it really hurts the dogs if you ask me.

I'm interested in reading the responses, I like the question.

rock pushin rabbit hunter · Mon May 07, 2007 9:32 pm

Adog better run his own rabbit if hes going to stay around me.I can't stand a [me too] dog that has his nose in another dogs hind end every time you see him.I want to see a dog pack the front every chance he gets.If a dog is content running behind all the time I dont need them.

tiffinis · Post by **tiffinis** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:30 am

Hey Harley, our male Patch hound is like that too. He doesn't bother hunting with the slower hounds we have around here. He gets in there and gets the job done. Our buddies beagle never shuts his trap, I swear wastes more breath barking then sniffing. Sage brings home 3 or 4 rabbits to that dogs one. He is fast and efficient. When he opens his mouth you better pay attention and bring your gun up!!

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:49 am

I WANT A DOG THAT DESIRES THE FRONT AND GETS IT,BUT I WANT ONE THAT MOVES TO THE FRONT TIGHT,NO SWINGING.I KNOW I USE TO RUN WILD DOGS BUT I KNOW NOW WHAT I REALLY LIKE AND LINE CONTROL IS IT,BUT I HATE A DOG THAT RUNS AROUND FOLLOWING EVERYTHING.

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:22 am

I see this from a rabbit hunters view so I like a dog that can handle the front when he has it but will slot in also. A dog that has to have the front all the time will blow your race up (a lot) of the time.That kind of dog will also burn itself out, sometimes very young.

HarleyPA · Post by **HarleyPA** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:35 pm

I asked this question because I've been thinking about a UKC hunt I went to on Sunday. I've been to three others and I had my gyp entered in two of those.
I have to say this before I say what happened. I had no other dogs until recently, and I didn't know anybody to run with, so my dog hasn't been run with anything besides when she was in competition. She doesn't pack up, or even hark into the other dogs. I don't like that, and I'm working on running her with others.

We had a three dog cast, and we got taken out to a hillside that had plenty of rabbits, but you couldn't see far. After twenty minutes and a lost track, which she didn't hark into, the two other dogs start a chase. The cast spreads out trying to get a line, meanwhile the rabbit circles and we all miss it. I guess my dog finally gets the idea to check out what these dogs are barking at, she gets close enough to catch the sent. I strike her in on what I thought was the same rabbit. She takes off. Judge tells me at this time its the same rabbit. Shes pushes the rabbit out of hearing, for her thats about three hundred yards in the woods, and I hear her turn and start to come back with it. Short of it is she brought it back and circled it two and half more times when the others were still barking fifty yards from where they were when she started. I really thought she was gonna lap them, but the rabbit turned.
Judge later calls it a split track. I guess we'll never know because we never saw them. In any case no plus points, because nobody saw the rabbit. We go back to the clubhouse, and the other guys are talking about how bad the conditions were?

I kept my mouth shut. I know from the way my dog was running that things were fine, and there should've been no excuses.
In any case, it got me thinking about what are the chances with this kind of format that you get drawn out with dogs that will pack together and push a rabbit like thay should. Out of the four hunts I've been to, one cast had dogs that would pack, and I think it was just because they we're related, and if my dog had of harked in to them, I think she would've run out on them.

coolbrze · Post by **coolbrze** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:48 pm

I want a dog that packs up, but I want a consistent pack at the same time. With that said, if the dog has the ability to run much faster than the pack it's running w/ and do it well, I want it to stretch out then. If it leaves the rest of the pack behind, then it's time to either get rid of this dog, or the pack b/c running different speed dogs doesn't work well.

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:17 am

It's your job as the owner to select and cull what works but this does support my thinking that soloing a dog( to much)can ruin them as a dog you can run in a pack. Personally I don't believe in soloing a young dog, my experience is it makes them independent, hard headed and causes them to pick up bad habits that you will have to spend (wasted time) trying to correct. Plus when you here most people talk about soloing a dog that means he took to a rabbit pen and left him, how is he learning anything from you if your not there. There is much more to getting a good rabbit dog than just rabbit tracks.

HarleyPA · Post by **HarleyPA** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:04 am

Rabbithoundjb;

I didn't ask for an opinion on soloing a dog. You're 100 percent correct about running a dog in a pack. I screwed the pooch on that one. However, what was I supposed to do? Wave my magic wand and make some running dogs appear out of thin air, so that I could train her with? The dog is a year and nine months old. I've been trying to find dogs for her to run with for about a year. I'm just finding them now. And as far as her not harking in, she's been down with other dogs a total of three times, each time she shows improvement.

As far as wasting time goes, she could be much worse than not harking. Running off game, skirting, swinging, cutting, quitting, not hunting, babbling, and cold trailing are all worse in my opinion. I think I can fix the harking issue fairly easily.

I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way. You just happened to get my panties in a bunch.

HarleyPA · Post by **HarleyPA** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:10 am

I prefer a dog the runs its own rabbit. But I would like it pack too.

Example, I would like dogs to work as a pack when they come to a check.

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:45 am

Harley I was not trying to stir you up, if you don't have access to an old dog you do what you have to do. I was making a statement of my opinion (as a rabbit hunter) of what I believe to be the best practice with a young dog. I hope your dog comes around.

Joeyman · Post by **Joeyman** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:33 pm

HarleyPA wrote:Rabbithoundjb;

I didn't ask for an opinion on soloing a dog. You're 100 percent correct about running a dog in a pack. I screwed the pooch on that one. However, what was I supposed to do? Wave my magic wand and make some running dogs appear out of thin air, so that I could train her with? The dog is a year and nine months old. I've been trying to find dogs for her to run with for about a year. I'm just finding them now. And as far as her not harking in, she's been down with other dogs a total of three times, each time she shows improvement.

As far as wasting time goes, she could be much worse than not harking. Running off game, skirting, swinging, cutting, quitting, not hunting, babbling, and cold trailing are all worse in my opinion. I think I can fix the harking issue fairly easily.

I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way. You just happened to get my panties in a bunch.

How do you know if your dog skirts or cut's if you haven't ran it with other dog's before. Also cold trailing. You have no other dog's to compare it to. I suggest you get you more dog's. Have your own pack. Your dog may or may not learn how to pack. You have to get it in a pack of dog's. With alot of work It could happen.

HarleyPA · Post by **HarleyPA** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:47 pm

Rabbithoundjb, sorry I ripped your head off. I did what I had to do to get the dog running how she is, and I worked hard at it. Thats why I took it personal. No harm done. I take it you like your dogs to pack no matter what.

Joeyman:
She don't skirt and she don't cold trail. When shes on a rabbit, she'll go through whatever it takes to get it. She wont bark until the rabbit is up, I don't know what you call cold trailing, but thats not it too me.
As far as the cutting and slashing, I always figured that was a learned trait. So, if the dog hasn't run with others, how could it learn it? She doesn't run every part of a tract, but I'd say she runs 90 to 95 percent of it. The missing percent? Well, if shes in open country she tends to run over a little bit, not enough to be a problem and if shes run up, she knows better. Again, I don't know what you call cutting and slashing, but for me its when a dog gambles and runs hit and miss to get the front of a pack. And again, I always thought of that as a learned behavior, as a dog that runs that way solo, isn't going to get very far running like that. At least not around me.

I did get another dog, and I'm looking to get another. I think I got the fever.

But in the mean time, I have also met other beaglers in my area, by going to trials, that I can now run my dogs with.

I didn't tell that story about my dog to get help or opinions on what I did wrong or what I should do. I know what direction I'm going in, and which one I'm coming from. I used that story to illustrate what made me ask the original question. Which was, do you prefer your dogs to run with the pack no matter what, or do you like them to run their own rabbit?