as i have said in just about every post i have made here,,,, all 16 probably, i am new to beagling, returning after a 15 year absence, or maybe 12,,, anyway,, i have come back with vim and vigor and would really like to get involved in trialing,,,, not to win a whole bunch but just to extend my involvement to year round. i have a couple of beagles who basically started themselves and are about a year and a half old. i am thinking that getting a good hound to run with them might help and my question is this
what are the chances of my getting a good hound from someone??? i mean, why would anyone sell me anything other than a cull??? like i said, i am new, and i might be asking for some help,, and i am asking about a subject where my knowledge is limited and others know a lot more than i do,,,, i feel like it is real easy to see me coming. most people are trying to build their own kennels, no doubt they are gonna keep the best dogs for themselves,,, they might have a friend that they let buy a good quality dog,,,, but how many people are going to sell a quality dog,,, one who a newbie like me might use as a foundation for my kennel,,, how many people are gonna sell someone they don't know a truly good hound????
please,, understand,,, i am really not trying to be offensive in any way. y'all have helped me a great deal,,, i understand a lot more now than i ever did,, have gained lots of knowledge just reading over this board,,, i am just really at a loss as to how to get into this game. i am a high school teacher, single parent, so i don't have lots of money, i figure you can do it if you have lot's of money because you can take as many chances as you need to get started,,,, but how does someone break into trialing from the bottom. i feel like my dogs need to run with a good hound,, even just to see if they have any potential or if i should get rid of them. (mine have only been in rabbit habitat six or seven times,,, always by themselves,, and they sniff and snort and open and trail and move around, on two occasions they have driven a rabbit into the open,,, it is very thick where i put them down,,, i really don't think they have ever seen a rabbit,, and don't know if they know what they are after) so i would like to get a good dog to run with my dogs but i am not sure how to go about getting a good dog,,,,, or really don't even know what the chances are that someone in my position might actually get a good dog from someone's kennel when i have no personal relationship with the kennel owner.
i sure hope i haven't offended anyone, if i have i apologize right here, ,,, but this is a concern,,, and before i go out and send someone hundreds of dollars for a rabbit dog,,,, for a dog that might be a "trial" dog,,, i would like to get the views of people on this board, who seem to be forthright and frank about subjects such as this. what do y'all think??????
what are the chances of getting a truly good started dog???
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
getting a good dog
Not all dogs that are sold are culls. Alot of times guys just decide that they want to go to another line or they raise one that is too fast or too slow for their pack. Sometimes it's job changes or family matters that force a sale. I have sold a few dogs cheap and the guys always ask why and it's usually just to make room for another dog coming in . I gave them a money back gaurentee and have yet to have one returned. So remember if you don't take a chance in your life you'll watch the world past you bye
dog
I agree with BigB, Not all dogs that are sold are culls. I just sold a 14 month old bramlett female and she is definitely not a cull. She just hunted wider than I like and I am trying to get down to 6 dogs. She will do fine for people that like a dog that hunts wide, she runs a rabbit just fine and handles good also. Just be careful and do your homework, there are some guys out there that are honest and there are some guys that will sell you some junk. I wrote and article for the March issue of the american beagler on buying dogs and it is worth reading for anyone purchasing a dog especially if you are new to it. The keys are to do your homework, ask the right questions, and get a trial period(at least two weeks). What are you looking for in a dog?(Speed, gender, solo or pack) If you let me know that I may be able to direct you to someone that I know or recommend. Remember if someone sells you a good dog they are probably gonna want good money for it and rightfully so let me know how much you want to spend, and I will try to refer you to someone that will not sell you junk. Send me a private email. I have been stuck before myself, so I'll be glad to help you out.
Big Dog
Big Dog
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
Hello Again
Come up to the trade day on the 24th of MAY in Brookhaven, MS!
You can see the hound run for yourself if you are interrested in them! Should be several hounds there for sell!
Most culls are others treasures! I have bought Culls and I love them! They are not culls to me, they just didn't suit the person I bought them from!
Hope to meet you there,
rileybeagles@yahoo.com
Briarcreek Kennel Supplies
Briarcreek Beagles
David N. Riley II - Bglenut
Come up to the trade day on the 24th of MAY in Brookhaven, MS!
You can see the hound run for yourself if you are interrested in them! Should be several hounds there for sell!
Most culls are others treasures! I have bought Culls and I love them! They are not culls to me, they just didn't suit the person I bought them from!
Hope to meet you there,
rileybeagles@yahoo.com
Briarcreek Kennel Supplies
Briarcreek Beagles
David N. Riley II - Bglenut
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Robert W. Mccoy Jr
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:57 pm
- Location: Canton Michigan
I agree with what is posted.
I would also add that most off us hear can get a good young dog pretty much anytime we want. But we know were gonna pay.
But this means the dog isn't broke off Trash and isnt finished in the field.
Meaning they still have to have a close eye on them to see what there doing and to make sure other dog's arent putting too much pressure on them.
To buy a good young started hound is one thing to buy a young say 3 year old dog that is finished is another they cost.
But they should come with a garuntee and they should perform.
I would also add that most off us hear can get a good young dog pretty much anytime we want. But we know were gonna pay.
But this means the dog isn't broke off Trash and isnt finished in the field.
Meaning they still have to have a close eye on them to see what there doing and to make sure other dog's arent putting too much pressure on them.
To buy a good young started hound is one thing to buy a young say 3 year old dog that is finished is another they cost.
But they should come with a garuntee and they should perform.
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Little Dog
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 9:13 pm
- Location: Georgetown, IN
I’ve got a few of them culls Dosgris. They are no fun but I’m the type that thinks if I work a little harder they will come around and they never do and they end up as someone’s pet. There are some good culls, but I’ve been unlucky on a couple, but I am cheap (therein is my problem). You’ll pay out the nose for a good 3 year old. I found a breeder down in KY that has something like 50 acres in 2 different running pens (thick and full of bunnies) and breeds a lot of dogs but all the dogs get a bunch of ground time and he has some 12-15 month old dogs that get more running time than most of our 3 year olds and at a reasonable price. They handle terrible but he gets em where they can run a rabbit – the rest is up to you, but you got to know what you want. It is a business to him and his products are pretty good and he’ll sell the good ones once they get primed. Find you some one like that near you and you are set.
To be honest – it would have been cheaper 5 years ago when I started to drop a lot of cash down on some really good 3 and 4 year-old dogs, but the ride would not have been any fun.
To be honest – it would have been cheaper 5 years ago when I started to drop a lot of cash down on some really good 3 and 4 year-old dogs, but the ride would not have been any fun.
"The best dog is the dog that pleases you the best"
what are the chances of getting a truly good started dog???
snip
Good dogs can be had.HAving said that and to answer your question. "Slim to None short of a daft little old lady aka widow of a rabbit hunter not knowing what she has or wanting to keep it".
Or be prepared to pay REALLY big bucks.Most people DO NOT SELL what you are looking for 95% of the time.If it is a started dog for sale you can bet it has a some type fault in the eyes of the seller.You may be able to live with the fault ok.But that dog is for sale because it reaches a little to much or is not tight in the check area or loves off game ets etc etc.Count on it.
Do some research then,,,,Buy the best pup - s you can afford off proven crosses.Then do the training job yourself.You will be miles ahead and will not wind up frustrated feeding some one else's culls.imo
Hunt6 (David)
snip
Good dogs can be had.HAving said that and to answer your question. "Slim to None short of a daft little old lady aka widow of a rabbit hunter not knowing what she has or wanting to keep it".
Or be prepared to pay REALLY big bucks.Most people DO NOT SELL what you are looking for 95% of the time.If it is a started dog for sale you can bet it has a some type fault in the eyes of the seller.You may be able to live with the fault ok.But that dog is for sale because it reaches a little to much or is not tight in the check area or loves off game ets etc etc.Count on it.
Do some research then,,,,Buy the best pup - s you can afford off proven crosses.Then do the training job yourself.You will be miles ahead and will not wind up frustrated feeding some one else's culls.imo
Hunt6 (David)
thanx to y'all for responding. i continue to learn off of this board on a daily basis. i think the biggest problem is my being so new,,, such a lack of experience and lack of knowledge. also a lack of contacts. i know that most of you, with the knowledge that you have and the contacts that you have could get a good dog. shoot, i don't even know what a "good" dog is.
another question i have that has come up from this post, someone said something about a young dog and you have to watch out that it is not pressured too much by the older dogs. what does that mean???? i understand breaking off of trash. (it was mentioned in that post), but what does it mean to be pressured by older dogs.
the guy that i was talking to down here who kind of warned me to be careful was talking about there being a difference between "dog dealers" and "dog breeders". basically saying that the dealers were trying to make a buck and that dog breeders were trying to improve the breed. i understand that that is true with beagles and any other breed of dog. the problem is trying to tell the difference.
the truth is that this board is probably not exactly a representative sample of everybody out there. the people on this board care enough about the breed to take the time to discuss differences and keep up on current events and things happening with the breed. y'all are willing to help someone who you don't have a personal relationship with based on your love of the breed and the sport. it is gratifying for someone like me to find a place like this and really increases ones chances for success subsequently ones chances for staying in the sport and becoming a productive member of beagling society. this website shoud be required reading for people coming into the sport. i am very lucky to have stumbled into this site. it is the best stumble i have made in some time.
another question i have that has come up from this post, someone said something about a young dog and you have to watch out that it is not pressured too much by the older dogs. what does that mean???? i understand breaking off of trash. (it was mentioned in that post), but what does it mean to be pressured by older dogs.
the guy that i was talking to down here who kind of warned me to be careful was talking about there being a difference between "dog dealers" and "dog breeders". basically saying that the dealers were trying to make a buck and that dog breeders were trying to improve the breed. i understand that that is true with beagles and any other breed of dog. the problem is trying to tell the difference.
the truth is that this board is probably not exactly a representative sample of everybody out there. the people on this board care enough about the breed to take the time to discuss differences and keep up on current events and things happening with the breed. y'all are willing to help someone who you don't have a personal relationship with based on your love of the breed and the sport. it is gratifying for someone like me to find a place like this and really increases ones chances for success subsequently ones chances for staying in the sport and becoming a productive member of beagling society. this website shoud be required reading for people coming into the sport. i am very lucky to have stumbled into this site. it is the best stumble i have made in some time.
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jrob
What are the chances of getting a good started dog
All dogs sold are not culls. I usually raise about 3 or 4 litters a year. Most I sale as puppies or give to club members. I try to keep at least a pair from each litter. I start them and then sale the ones that don't improve my pack. Some I keep for a year or so and If I get another that I think is better then that dog is for sale. I sold 3 dogs that were over two years old this past year. One is now a little pack champion and bench champion. Another now has a first place win and just needs points to champion. The other has been to one trial and finished 5th or 6th out of 40 something dogs.
I think that most beaglers or honest people. Ask about the guy selling the dogs then ask what he has for sale. Most of the dogs I sale are to someone that that knew someone that has some of my blood line. Some dogs just don't run the way I like, but to someone else it just their cup of tea. Don't take my word for it watch them run. Their are some good dogs down in your part of La.
I think that most beaglers or honest people. Ask about the guy selling the dogs then ask what he has for sale. Most of the dogs I sale are to someone that that knew someone that has some of my blood line. Some dogs just don't run the way I like, but to someone else it just their cup of tea. Don't take my word for it watch them run. Their are some good dogs down in your part of La.
getting a good dog
To dosgris- Too much pressure can come from running a young pup with a faster older dog. The pup will have to cheat in order to try to keep up, or get a checkor he may do nothing more than dog track(bark on the other dogs trail). Young dogs can pick up a lot of bad habits from getting too much pressure.
Big Dog
Big Dog
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
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high ridge joe
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 4:56 pm
- Location: Hornell, NY
i went to don arnold in jamestown, ny last year...i was looking for a good hunting dog....he showed me a nice little male...said he was selling him because he had alot of younger dogs to run....he was an honest man...told me alot about the dog and ran him for me...i paid a fair price for a started 3 yr old male with spo places....i had him for a 2 week trial and took him to my clubs gundog brace trial after i had him for only 6 days..( just to see what he could do..)...dog was in fair shape and he ended up winning the trial...in 95 deg. heat....getting his and my, 1st win...i thoroughly enjoy this hound...he is a great little hunter and runner...i got a very good dog at a very good price....i cant thank him enough...as you can see my story points out that there are honest people out there willing to sell you a good hound...i have bought 3 from don & gloria arnold's Willow Run Kennels....and i am happy with all of them..
joe t
joe t
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Bob
Good Started Dog???
None. Or almost none... some people win lotteries too. Trust me on this one... I'm not trying to sell you anything. Or do a favor for a friend selling something.
If a dog was any good, it wouldn't be for sale.
You should also know that most, if not all, of those on this board can show you a dog in such a way to hide the faults. You're "new", sellers will cheat you and the "nice" people on this board and others will tell you how stupid you are for being cheated. Once they soak you enough, if you still decide to trial, you might luck into a good pup. Then if you follow the normal course of things, you can cheat somone else and get your money back.
If you decide to buy a dog from a "breeder" or "dealer" (they're both the same from the "new" buyer's perspective- both are going to cheat you), get everything in writing. You should also know that this won't do any good unless you want to invest more than you were cheated out of in legal fees. Guarantees, trial periods, or offers to return your money are meaningless because they are only as good as the character of the seller.
Bitter??? Who me? Sure, but the above is still true. I really wish someone had given me this advice several months ago. Good Luck.
Bob
If a dog was any good, it wouldn't be for sale.
You should also know that most, if not all, of those on this board can show you a dog in such a way to hide the faults. You're "new", sellers will cheat you and the "nice" people on this board and others will tell you how stupid you are for being cheated. Once they soak you enough, if you still decide to trial, you might luck into a good pup. Then if you follow the normal course of things, you can cheat somone else and get your money back.
If you decide to buy a dog from a "breeder" or "dealer" (they're both the same from the "new" buyer's perspective- both are going to cheat you), get everything in writing. You should also know that this won't do any good unless you want to invest more than you were cheated out of in legal fees. Guarantees, trial periods, or offers to return your money are meaningless because they are only as good as the character of the seller.
Bitter??? Who me? Sure, but the above is still true. I really wish someone had given me this advice several months ago. Good Luck.
Bob
Bob, good grief, I guess you're bitter. Were you on the internet several months ago? The informations been out there on the beagle boards for years, articles in the magazines, etc. Did you ask anyone to help you find a reputable breeder or get any recommendations? If you did and this is the end result, all I can say is I feel for you and wish it had been me that referred you to someone.
Let me throw in another scenario where a person can get a real good started hound. We just bought one from a breeder who'd gotten the hound back because she ended up too fast for the buyer's pack. The hound was out of the customer's bitch who was bred to their stud. Keeping in good communication, the breeder offered to buy the hound and get her with an owner they knew could promote her and whose pack she would match nicely. They feel a certain responsibilty to give every pup a chance since it is out of their male. I couldn't be happier with the hound. They'd kept her for a while and ran her a lot so they could evaluate where she was. I knew what I was getting months before she got here. I know that's not the norm for a breeder to go to that extreme, but when you can find a friend/breeder/beagler you can hang your hat on, it's golden.
Anyone who's ever bought a hound from us knows we will take a hound of our breeding back if it doesn't work out for them. Most of the time we give a trial period if it's a started dog.
There's really no reason other than greed or laziness to misrepresent a hound. Tell all the positives and negatives. If someone doesn't want the hound after hearing it, the next guy just might. There is a very small percentage of hounds that just wouldn't suit anybody. It just takes a little time sometimes to match hound and owner's needs.
Let me throw in another scenario where a person can get a real good started hound. We just bought one from a breeder who'd gotten the hound back because she ended up too fast for the buyer's pack. The hound was out of the customer's bitch who was bred to their stud. Keeping in good communication, the breeder offered to buy the hound and get her with an owner they knew could promote her and whose pack she would match nicely. They feel a certain responsibilty to give every pup a chance since it is out of their male. I couldn't be happier with the hound. They'd kept her for a while and ran her a lot so they could evaluate where she was. I knew what I was getting months before she got here. I know that's not the norm for a breeder to go to that extreme, but when you can find a friend/breeder/beagler you can hang your hat on, it's golden.
Anyone who's ever bought a hound from us knows we will take a hound of our breeding back if it doesn't work out for them. Most of the time we give a trial period if it's a started dog.
There's really no reason other than greed or laziness to misrepresent a hound. Tell all the positives and negatives. If someone doesn't want the hound after hearing it, the next guy just might. There is a very small percentage of hounds that just wouldn't suit anybody. It just takes a little time sometimes to match hound and owner's needs.
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Guest
Bob=I don't know where you are located at but if near Va or Alabama i feel i can change your way of thinking and let you=AT NO "COST"==Take a young started bluetick i have and let you try it for 30 days and than pay me what "YOU" think it is worth and if YOU feel it is worthless i will come get it at "MY" cost==deal???????????????????????????????????