Question for everyone

Farwest · Post by **Farwest** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:40 am

Has anyone ever used an eight month old as a stud? This question is for a friend of mine that feels the hound is very good for eight months. While I disagree , I could be wrong.

JAW · Post by **JAW** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:11 am

I don't consider any hound a stud until it reaches 15 months of age and can solo a rabbit really good on his on and doesn't have many faults that can not be corrected.It takes time to see what you have in a hound and though he may be good at 8 months what will he be like in the future.The reason I say this is a 8 month old hound has not developed his focus (full attention)of running the rabbit and staying in the check area.If you breed him this early what do you thing his young little mind will be on when he's suppose to be hunting?If you do decide to breed him (it's your choice) write down all of his runs afield after the breeding and see for yourself if he's getting better every time out or do he appear to have lost his edge.As the hound matures you'll get a idea of his or her running ability,something you want see or know of at 8 months. John Watson

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:17 pm

i wouldnt use an 8 month old but i got a 10 month old who is way above average that has had a full gunseason already. i will possibly use him soon in a cross. we had a good discussion on another board

about this til it got locked cause a couple guys thought they could turn it into a free for all. im sure thats why this post is here now. but it is an interesting topic and really boils down to personal opinion.

Redbird · Post by **Redbird** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:27 pm

Personally I wouldnt because you never know what kind of a dog that he will be after 2 seasons. I have a 2 year old with 2 gun seasons that is heavy K-Buck and he changed from last year to this year.

He is still a great dog but he hunts different on the jump. He winds more rabbits now rather busting through all of the briars. Also he now prefers the front rather than slotting at 2nd or 3rd most of the time.

I have seen dogs totally blow-up and become cheaters on the line by slashing, swinging and flat out racing in order to get to and keep the front. I am going to use him to breed this year.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:03 pm

Go back to the daddy of the 8 month old pup. He has proven he can produce some good, while the pup has yet to mature or show his worth at stud...
Linesman started his career early as a young hound of 9 months, but it was not planned. He climbed the fence and bred Solitary, to produce Captain...Both hounds had great blood and quality hounds behind them and thats what made it work...

coyote hunter · Post by **coyote hunter** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:13 am

I understand that any hound born has at 10months or 10 years the genetics are the same and if he can produce he will .But can I ask what kind of CLOWN would consider using an 8 month old for stud???Ya got a gun season???so ya shot a 100 rabbits with him and the pack???Or did ya?that means nothing to me they haven't proven themselves NOT NEAR.To consider using a dog at that age for stud one can't be use to much.Why wouldn't ya wait to see if the dog will be worthy of breeding as a hunting hound himself not just the paper stuff, wouldn't that make more since to have the odds on your side??The only way I could see a person doing this would be for supply and demand maybe if that is what one is into.Take care Dan.

Big CIty · Post by **Big CIty** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:50 pm

I like what SR Patch said if you like what you see, go breed a QUALITY bitch to his Sire. Altough firts I would be sure to see BOTH parents run to see whare he got the skills from.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:19 pm

Id like to see a percentage of males that can even cover a bitch at 8 months. Most I have seen are still squatting to pee. I doubt he could even breed her. Having said that this guy must be kennel blind, because surely someone has something better than his 8 month old.

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:36 pm

This is from the CKC Breeder Standards. Although no age is stated, maturity is mentioned. A beagle is not fully mature at 8 months. I would wait until the dog is two before using as stud and has some record of his performance in field or ring.

Select breeding stock that conforms to the approved CKC Breed Standard to the highest possible degree.
Use dogs that are known to be of sound health and stable temperament.
Choose both a sire and dam that have reached such maturity that they can produce and raise a healthy litter.
Assure that all breeding documents and registrations are available for inspection and completely in order.
As the owner of a stud dog, ensure that the owner of the dam has the ability and the necessary facilities to successfully whelp, raise and assure the future well being of any resulting litter.
As the owner of the dam, ensure that the owner of the sire has the knowledge and experience to provide a safe and proper mating, including the diligent care of the dam.

AKC Standard
Breeding age limits According to AKC Rules, Chapter 3, Section 5, the dam must be at least 8 months but not more than 12 years old on the date of mating. The sire must be at least 7 months old but not more than 12 years old on the date of mating.

Carolyn

Farwest · Post by **Farwest** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:12 pm

Blackdirt, you say you wouldn't use an eight month old. Isn't that because your bitch didn't cooperate and come into heat when you wanted? It was a good discussion on the other board when everyone agreed with you. When I and a few more disagreed we got banned lol. Reminds me another board

Anyway all of that aside, I too thought it to be an interesting topic and would like to hear other peoples opinions. This is a much busier board with could draw a lot more input so I asked the question here. Genes are genes they are not going to change as the dog matures. I was curious how many other people would be willing to take such a gamble.

Buckeye Bob · Post by **Buckeye Bob** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:42 pm

I would wait,whats the rush?But its not my dog so not my business to tell you what to do.If I BOUGHT a pup off of you I would want it to be from a stud that had more than one season on him.JMO

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:42 pm

farwest - ive said my feelings on this topic and can move on. if you want to beat a dead horse... i wish you luck. time to move on to something interesting...

coyote hunter · Post by **coyote hunter** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:02 am

I think this is a very interesting topic,it is maybe a topic that can help the breed instead of people just breeding as a supply and demand method.To me 8 months old is a puppy not a stud and personally can't see why anyone would think of doing that????It sounds like something a new beagler with little knowledge would look at maybe but not a person that has been in the sport any amout of time I wouldn't guess.Take care Dan.

Farwest · Post by **Farwest** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:18 am

blackdirt beagles wrote:farwest - ive said my feelings on this topic and can move on. if you want to beat a dead horse... i wish you luck. time to move on to something interesting...

It's not you I want to hear form. I know what your all about. I am hoping to hear from some one that actually has experience with the topic

Greg H · Post by **Greg H** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 am

Hey Farwest, Good to see you finally made it back to this board that has so much information. How in the world did you manage to stay away for 10 months. The last time you posted on this board the dog that you are so worried about was just being whelped. It seems to me you had it in for someone way back then to.

Now back to the topic at hand: If your friend wants to test breed his young dog to see if he will pass on family traits I think that would be fine. I have often wondered how many decent bloodlines have never got a chance to bloom because the world thinks it better to wait for a dog to show whether he will screw up as a 2 year old or not. How many dogs, that would have passed on the very best the bloodlines had to offer, never breed because they got killed while the breeder was waiting to do what his buddies think is the right thing to do. Now I am not saying that we all should start breedin them as soon as thier nuts drop, but in this case or any other case where a pup is showing extrordinary talent I sure would be tempted to test breed him just to prevent the potential loss.