The American Beagler Forum

DNA Question For You SMARTIES.....

I'm pretty dumb about the science of DNA...

Scenerio:

Say your dog is directly out of "IFC THE MAN" and its dam is a direct grandpup to "IFC THE MAN". By blood your dog is 62.5% "IFC THE MAN" because he is double bred "IFC THE MAN" once on the 1st generation and once on the 3rd generation.......

Here is my question:

If we go to test your dog's DNA looking for "IFC THE MAN" will it show the relationships (percentages) or just that "IFC THE MAN" exist in the dog's history without regard to percent of blood?

Thanks In Advance...
Jack

That's a good question.... wish I was smart enough to help you. I would think that though DNA you could find out just about anything. Good luck.



hounddog
Jim Umbarger

i believe that it will show the percentage. are you asking this to see how close you can get with line breeding. it should show how much or thepercentage of the dna is contributed by that hound and then you can almost predict based on the traits that ifc the man poses on what the pups will turn out like. any time that you can make the line more concentrated you will be able to make a more accurate assumption the pups. instead of one or two turning out like you guest one one or two will not.

The AKC lists it as an indentification tool to keep some of you suckers STRAIGHT out there in your puppy mills!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crew Chief

what is this suppose to mean

Its a positive way to check what fathered what!!!!

Crew Chief

If ''The Man'' has been bred more than 7 times he will have his own DNA chart showing his genotype that makes up his genetic identity.Someone who can look at these charts and understand them can see how much of ''The Man'' exists in the hound.I'm sure they could break it down into a percentage.AKC has someone that does DNA tests for them and they keep DNA records of dogs that have been tested.So actually you wil be able to find that ''The Man'' does exist in the dog and possibly get a percentage of how much.If they can test humans and tell you that your 99.9% the father they should also be able to do dogs.Just my thoughts.
Ray Lucas

Right Ray,,, Stops the ole ------ in the wood pile thing!!!!!! When we get a good enough data base, this'll help. I've got two of mine with DNA#'s showing on the cert from the AKC...

Crew Chief

It is not a good tool. Go back another generation or two.
Look at the grandsires and granddams of "IFC The Man"
What percent is he of any one of those?

Dogs are not usually the highest percentage of jusy good or famous dogs in their pedigree, but as luck would have it, the blood of the sorry ones is in there too tit for tat.

Example: A great dog that comes from four grandparents or eight grandparents and all but one was no good. The great IFC dog took after the one that was good, but your chance of getting another good one from him is 8 to 1 and even worse the higher % of his and their sorry blood that is in your pups.

I've called the AKC DNA program regarding questions like the one you have.I was taken by suprise with the answers to some of the questions I had and it made me wonder if AKC is only after our money.(1)If only the sire is profiled you wouldn't get any answer as to parentage because it simply states that BOTH the sire & dam must be profiled to establish parentage.(2)The AKC will tell you there is no way for them to tell if your pup has more of the sires genes than the dams genes or any other hound in their pedigree for that matter.(3)On the sample paper they give you with your hounds profile it states that the genotyping technology DOES NOT USE ACTUAL GENES, BUT OTHER DNA SEQUENCES REFERRED TO AS MARKERS,THAT ARE ALSO INHERTIED FROM EACH PARENT.That ought to dispell the self made theory Mr. HALL gave you.I DNA all my hounds if they are going to be breed males as well as females. That's the only way to stop the crooks out there.You get nothing from DNAing the sire only because you can attach those papers to any female that was breed to that sire. Thanks, John Watson

correct me if I am wrong. First two things will effect a pups make up genes and its environment. Perhaps, not enough emphasis put on environment. A Pup will receive 50 % genes from sire 50 % from dame. However, the genes inherited from each parent are randomly selected. So it is possible for two pups in the same litter to have nearly different genetics, although this is highly unlikely.


Sire / Dame

AB-CD-EF-GH/ IJ-KL-MN-OP

PUP 1 / PUP 2
AI-CK-EM-GO / BJ-DL-FN-HP

Linebreeding will increase the chances of getting those genes desired, but it is still a matter and chance. Start a pup earlier and work with him hard( environment) to make him a great dog.

Look guys, I don't think the AKC has set this up for checking out how good your hound may be in the future.. Its for people who may plunk down huge bucks for a puppy out of that Parker Type hound we see at the Nats. Like I said before,, Positive Proof, Who Fathered WHO...Period!!!!

Crew Chief

PS In this day and age,,, I'm sure at least one of you out there have been in a Paternity SUIT!!! God this should get some laughs!!!!

xdawg,
Yes, The Man will appear in 62.5% of the markers. But since there are not that many unique types at each marker, The Man's DNA profile will appear more then 62.5%, but the extra will NOT be from The Man. Without a DNA profile of the rest of the 13 ancestors, there is not way to tell which markers are from The Man, but who cares?

DNA is use to prove who is NOT an ancestor (parent) rather than who is.

I am a science teacher and will give a general overview of how this works. DNA has some parts that are the same in all dogs and some parts that will be different in different dogs. The way DNA testing generally works is that the DNA is collected and a specific enzyme is applied that will cut the DNA strand at specific locations along the strand -- between certain base sequences. Some will be long strands after being cut, others shorter strands -- various lengths. When these are put in a gel and electricity is applied, the various lengths will travel at different speeds. The longer (heavier) strands will not travel as far and the shorter the strand(less heavy) the further it will have traveled. These will form band patterns. These bands can be analyzed to form the DNA profile of the dog. If the DNA profile of an ancestor is on record and a descendant dog's DNA profile is worked up then a percentage can be calculated between the anscestor and the descendant. However that does not necessarily translate into a knowledge of specific relations between certain dogs within the pedigree. This is because you can wind up with a certain percentage in different ways. You would have to have the DNA profiles of the other dogs to be 100 % certain. But, if you know what the pedigree linage is supposed to be and figure up the supposed percentage, and then the DNA analysis supports that, then one can be fairly certain that the pedigree is correct.