I was wondering if someone could post the rules in judging on the bench. Is there different ways judges judge confirmation in different registeries as in AKC, UKC, ARHA. etc. Are there certain faults in a dogs confirmation that are worse than others according to a bench judge.
Jeremy
Confirmation???
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
All these registries have a bench judging criteria, reading them they are pretty much the same, however the ARHA I believe explains the information on what you judge the dog much better then the other registries IMO.
They have a point system that tells you what each area of the dog is worth, but does not tell you how much to deduct for a fault. I believe this is what is left upto the judge.
They have a point system that tells you what each area of the dog is worth, but does not tell you how much to deduct for a fault. I believe this is what is left upto the judge.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
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SouthernBeagles
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Re: Confirmation???
Jeremy,
The AKC and NKC are set up on a point deduction systems. When I judge large classes like in the AKC UBGF I have to score each dog individually. Points are deducted for anything from bowed legs to a high ear set or too long or short a tail. I decide how many points to deduct depending on how severe the fault is. For example the ear. Is it too long? Too short? Is it just a little off? Is it WAY short? How is the ear set? Is the ear set high making the ear appear to be a little short? I may deduct one point or may deduct several points depending on the severity. I do this with every part of the beagles body.
After all of the dogs have been judged, I tally up my scores and bring back usually the top 8 scoring dogs to put head to head for the "Show". When I get to these points and if I did my job correct the highest scoring dog of the day from earlier SHOULD win however this doesn't always happen. Usually does, but not always.
When placing the hounds I consider everything about the hounds but it boils down to running gear. The running gear is the drive train of our hounds. Things like the ears or tail (however functional they may be) are more cosmetic and I will place a dog with good running gear over a dog with a fault with the head or tail ANY DAY over one with a purdy head and faulty running gear. We must keep in mind what our hounds were bred to do. Ask yourself if this fault will effect that hounds movement in the field. Things like poor angulation, pigeon breast, bowed or twists in the legs, narrow ribs, backs too short or too long, too straight a top line, roach back, splayed feet and so on will eventually cause the dog some problems. The muzzle being a little narrow or snippy or the ocuput being a little domed, the eyes too small or narrow, a little dander in the coat, the tail too short or long doesn't have anything to do with that dogs ability to run all day every day but just effects the pretty package there for they are not considered major faults IMO as a bench judge.
The AKC and NKC are set up on a point deduction systems. When I judge large classes like in the AKC UBGF I have to score each dog individually. Points are deducted for anything from bowed legs to a high ear set or too long or short a tail. I decide how many points to deduct depending on how severe the fault is. For example the ear. Is it too long? Too short? Is it just a little off? Is it WAY short? How is the ear set? Is the ear set high making the ear appear to be a little short? I may deduct one point or may deduct several points depending on the severity. I do this with every part of the beagles body.
After all of the dogs have been judged, I tally up my scores and bring back usually the top 8 scoring dogs to put head to head for the "Show". When I get to these points and if I did my job correct the highest scoring dog of the day from earlier SHOULD win however this doesn't always happen. Usually does, but not always.
When placing the hounds I consider everything about the hounds but it boils down to running gear. The running gear is the drive train of our hounds. Things like the ears or tail (however functional they may be) are more cosmetic and I will place a dog with good running gear over a dog with a fault with the head or tail ANY DAY over one with a purdy head and faulty running gear. We must keep in mind what our hounds were bred to do. Ask yourself if this fault will effect that hounds movement in the field. Things like poor angulation, pigeon breast, bowed or twists in the legs, narrow ribs, backs too short or too long, too straight a top line, roach back, splayed feet and so on will eventually cause the dog some problems. The muzzle being a little narrow or snippy or the ocuput being a little domed, the eyes too small or narrow, a little dander in the coat, the tail too short or long doesn't have anything to do with that dogs ability to run all day every day but just effects the pretty package there for they are not considered major faults IMO as a bench judge.
Don't squat with your spurs on!
Run your hounds over plowed or rough ground, those that excel and seem to float or glide over the roughness going up and down hill, have correct conformation and balance.
All parts being equal or balanced, and shown to be working in harmony with little effort, this is correct conformation.
Correct conformation is fluid movement, judging parts is easy but, running hounds to see movement/balance in motion, is absolutely necessary to gain the "eye" for judging hounds on a bench, properly built for the work of a long days hunt and being capable of returning the next...
A man won't know, unless he's hunted his hound. And, a judge won't know unless he's gone afield and seen those most perfectly built perform, and also, the ways inwhich departing from this perfection(unbalanced), inhibit the hounds performance.
I couldn't judge you the best seaworthy boat, cause I've never seen those perform or been on the ocean...
...Patch
All parts being equal or balanced, and shown to be working in harmony with little effort, this is correct conformation.
Correct conformation is fluid movement, judging parts is easy but, running hounds to see movement/balance in motion, is absolutely necessary to gain the "eye" for judging hounds on a bench, properly built for the work of a long days hunt and being capable of returning the next...
A man won't know, unless he's hunted his hound. And, a judge won't know unless he's gone afield and seen those most perfectly built perform, and also, the ways inwhich departing from this perfection(unbalanced), inhibit the hounds performance.
I couldn't judge you the best seaworthy boat, cause I've never seen those perform or been on the ocean...
...PatchI'll go along with everything Patch said.
One of the worst faults a beagle can have is poor legs and feet. There are people that can show you how to judge angulation and similar traits.
I have found an easier way to judge a dog's conformation. I run them hard, for several hours at a time, in all conditions including several months of running in deep powder snow, hard crusty snow and everything in between. The dogs that come back with bloody feet and sore legs do not have the best conformation, the ones that come in after five hours of running on hard crusty snow looking like they just came out of the kennel are the ones that have correct conformation.
But that is how mother nature judges conformation. Here is a link to the UKC bench show rules:
http://www.ukcdogs.com/beagles/rules/hb-6.shtml
One of the worst faults a beagle can have is poor legs and feet. There are people that can show you how to judge angulation and similar traits.
I have found an easier way to judge a dog's conformation. I run them hard, for several hours at a time, in all conditions including several months of running in deep powder snow, hard crusty snow and everything in between. The dogs that come back with bloody feet and sore legs do not have the best conformation, the ones that come in after five hours of running on hard crusty snow looking like they just came out of the kennel are the ones that have correct conformation.
But that is how mother nature judges conformation. Here is a link to the UKC bench show rules:
http://www.ukcdogs.com/beagles/rules/hb-6.shtml
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TOUCHSTONE
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The beagle standard is very similar in all the registries I have judged in. The basic concept is to choose the dogs that most closely represents the standard. Dogs are best judged on quallities rather than faults. Fault judging is a good way to arrive at wrong decisions. Because I am a sportsman I judge according to my knowledge of how well the dog will perform physically based on its structure. Every aspect of the standard can be directly related to the hunt. I also agree that running gear is important. Balance is a must..... Does a snipey muzzle play any role or is it just a pretty dog thing? The amount of scent that travels through the muzzle to the olfactory nerves of the brain is greatly reduced as is the amount of air that reaches the lungs. In addition, with snipy muzzles comes poor bites/dentition and for a dog to survive it must have the abillity to eat. A tail carried too far forward will likely bleed and blood loss can also affect the dogs abillity. Just a couple of examples. Dan MDThere is no part of the standard that does not directly relate to performance. The registries set point scales as to how important they believe each part to be. Some require that the dog be gaited while I've heard others do not. Very few judges would be able to judge dogs correctly without seeing front, rear, and side motion. Dan M
STRUCTURE - THE WINNING EDGE!
I believe you mean conformation, not confirmation. I would question any Bench Shows that do not require gaiting. Wise judges do most of their judging while the dogs are gaiting. A lot of experianced folks that show dogs can stand a dog to cover up faults that can be caught while gaiting.
I am not trying to impress anyone but I have made lots of Bench Champions and a good number of Grand Bench Champions in several different registries. I show my dogs more as a training exercise for young dogs that to make a lot of Champions but I manage to do both.
Most of my dogs, regardless of the breed, are Bench Show quality. I won't keep dogs that are parrot mouthed, cow hocked, coon footed, bottled nosed, crooked legged, or yellow eyed. Even my Mt Curs, a very uneven made strain of dogs, are good enough to win Bench Shows.
I am not trying to impress anyone but I have made lots of Bench Champions and a good number of Grand Bench Champions in several different registries. I show my dogs more as a training exercise for young dogs that to make a lot of Champions but I manage to do both.
Most of my dogs, regardless of the breed, are Bench Show quality. I won't keep dogs that are parrot mouthed, cow hocked, coon footed, bottled nosed, crooked legged, or yellow eyed. Even my Mt Curs, a very uneven made strain of dogs, are good enough to win Bench Shows.
I believe that if you look at the AKC standards the items that get awarded the most points is awarded to the body parts (35) such as the chest/shoulders and the back,loin and ribs all awarded 15 points each . The running gears is next (30) with the front legs, hips/thighs/hind legs and then the feet awarded 10 points each. The skull can bw awarded 25 points with the ears at 10 and the eyes nose and skull itself have 5 points available. The other point awarding characteristics is the tail and coat which can earn 5 points each. I would think that the point value set for specific body parts is the AKC's standard of what they feel is the most important characteristics for meeting the breed standard. I would hope that the awarding of points and the docking of points should be in line with what the standard cites as being of most importance. UKC puts more emphasis on the legs/feet and then the back/loins and on down so the awarding of points may vary accordingly. Having shown many coon hounds in UKC I know the legs and feet are the things that is looked at long and hard.
I don't use my spell checker all of the time, I mispell words occasionally. I was posting the correct word so some newbies would know it. The concept of conformation enhancing performance is correct.
I am surprized that a moderator doesn't eliminate some posts, I am not sure they are proper. My user name DOES come up correct.
I am surprized that a moderator doesn't eliminate some posts, I am not sure they are proper. My user name DOES come up correct.