fwcc meetings

[jackrabbit]

the agenda is out for the fish and wildlife concervation committee meeting feb. 1. the agenda will include license fees and structure, field trials, legislative issues , cwd update, and a time for open discusion. i could use your ideas on the directions you would like to see beagling and rabbit hunting headed.

my home addy is j2hyden@earthlink.net if want to send your ideas privately. or simply respond to the board if you like. i plan to share with you whatever comes out of the committee.

thanks
jackrabbit

[bowhunter59]

i'll be killed for saying this but here it goes shorten rabbit season some folks think they got to kill 10 a day!open season on hawks to 2 perperson per yr.make cyotes wide open all the time and any house cat seen in wooods is open season!

[jackrabbit]

i can imagine there will be some who will change their stance on jump shooting when they read your post ....lol. but thats what free speech is all about.

not sure i will get a sympathetic ear on most of your ideas there buddy, but then i didnt know we even had a season on coyotees....lol.

as for the number of rabbits folks are shooting. the research we are doing indicates that may not be all bad. first off over 80% of the rabbits born in the spring are dead before the next spring. ( 75 to 85% mortality from year to year ) about three factors come into play here. one) if all but one or two rabbits out of ten are going to die before the next season it seems practical to have them on the table rather than in the coyotees mouth. two) when there is less rabbits for preditors to feed on their litters are smaller in the spring. which means less coyotees, hawks, owls, and other preditor type animals.( which addresses your hawk thoughts ) three) when rabbit numbers are lower at breeding time the size of rabbit litters are larger which could lend itself to more rabbits through the rabbit hunting season.

as for cats...... let your conscience be your guide i guess. dont know what else to say ....lol

do keep the ideas coming.....

jackrabbit

[bowhunter59]

SO MAYBE WE GIVE THE COYOTEES HUNTERS OUR BEST ARBBIT HUNTING PLACES AND GIVE HIM A REWARD I DONT MIND KILLING A FEW RABBITS BUT DAng some go overboard !dogs cant run if they aint nothinbg to run !i dont lik it when theyb have to look for 30 minutes to just hear a run !so kill some owls too u were shooting at the sky and he got in the way lol!i'm just concerned if we dont help them out we wont have much to run before long is all and i love it!

[jackrabbit]

one thing that ive always been surprised at is that in the fall bunnies are every where. and even if i dont shoot rabbits in an area when it gets to the bad part of winter they seem to disappear. then when the weather warms in spring there they are again breeding like a bunch of rabbits. makes ya wonder if they started migrating like the ducks...lol.


no matter what sport or activity we have there are those who abuse it. its the ole a few rotten apples in the barrel concept. the importan thing to remember while we get frustrated though is that we need to focus on the ones that are abusing, and not put unfair restraints on the 98% that are good hunters and sportmen. its real difficult sometimes for sure. ive been there done that...lol.

also i have friends that still count the success of their rabbit hunts by the number of rabbits they get and the success of the season by those same numbers. and again i was once one of them. i also have hunting friends that though they do like to kill a lot of rabbits, do exercise restraint in the number of times they will hunt the same area during the season. according to the research we are finding though rabbits will be able to over populate our efforts to kill them off..... lol.

thanks again
jackrabbit

[beaglebill]

JACK, I POSTED ON THE INDIANABEAGLERSALLIANCE BOARD...ON THE OVERPOPULATING YOU SPEAK OF...I HAVE GONE TO AREAS THAT HAD BEEN HIT HARD WITH GOOD DOGS...YOU CAN CLEAN THEM OUT WITH ONE GOOD HUNT..AT LEAST THE DUMB ONES..GO BACK 5 DAYS LATER TO NOT JUMP ONE..AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A HOLE TO GO IN WE WILL HAVE RABBITS..BUT HOW MANY..??? GOOD POST BOWHUNTER...ME AND U BUDDY..

[PAPPY]

Jackrabbit, I don't have Beagles and probably shouldn't make a statement but I can't resist.You listed three reasons why there was a 75 to 80% mortality rate in the survey you all were doing but of those three reason's listed you didn't mention the fact that maybe some folks were just killing to many rabbits everytime they went huting.Shorten the season or maybe put a daily bag limit on the number allowed to be harvested seems like a good solid plan to me.
As to the coyotes having smaller litters each year and thus having fewer coyotes.......well all I can do is lmao at this statement and I would feel sorry for you if you made such a statement in a room full of ranchers in the state of Texas.Coyotes can and will find something to eat and their litter size will not vary enough to even notice from one year to the next.If they can't find rabbits to eat they had just as soon have a nice fat Beagle to take home to their brood or they can take down the rancher's livestock at will.Oh well I have vented enough except I hope that when someone responds to your request you at least look at it open mindedly except rejecting it like you did the first answer.

[jackrabbit]

first off guys sorry for the misunderstanding on the 75% to 85% mortality on rabbits. i was not citing reasons for the mortality. the figures and research indicates that even in the absence of hunting that the mortality annual mortality is over 80% so with that being the case many hunters are starting to say they would prefer to have those rabbits on the table rather than in the mouths of coyotees , hawks , or owls.

and actually if you re-read the post i said that lower rabbit populations decreases the litter size for all preditors not just coyotees. coyotees are scavengers by nature and dont even need to have rabbits to survive, however, they will take rabbits and if all food sources are scarce the coyotee just like the fox, owl, or hawk will have smaller litters.

and i didnt dismiss the first first post. i responded to each point. i doubt that i could get anyone to listen to a proposal to kill cats in the field, or allow the shooting of hawks. as for shorter seasons you may see that anyway..... there are more and more anti-hunters in dnr these days and they want nothing more than to take your opportunity to hunt away.

the three examples i gave for actually some of the reasons for extending season, rather reasons for high mortality among the rabbits.... the 80% is going to be there whether a hunter gets any or not.

i was skeptical myself untill i started doing the research and reading what what state after state dicovered about wild rabbits.

any ideas that come to me... these included will be looked at and mentioned in the meetings. thats what the meetings are for. and thats why i need the input.

[mobeagles]

First off Jackrabbit I am from Missouri and our season runs from Oct. 1 thru Feb. 15 with a daily limit of 6. Our season and limits have been this way for several years. According to the Conservation Department the number of small game hunters has showed a small decline each year for quite awhile now. Also the rabbit population has also showed the same type of decline. This goes along with your theory on hunting not having a large effect on rabbit populations. Predators and disease have and always will be mother natures ways of controling animal populations. In my opinion the number one concern of hunters and conservationists alike should be loss of habitat. Whether it be from farming practices used by large farms or expansion from urban sprawl, good cover for wildlife is being lost at an alarming rate. If loss of habitat isn't slowed it will become hard to justify maintaining current season lenghts much less extending them. Just my two cents worth.

[jackrabbit]

your ideas on habitat are correct. quail and pheasant hunters are inpacted and hurt even more than we are by less habitat. habitat loss comes in more than one form. urban sprawl , as they like to talk to call it, more clean row farming, and the fact that existing habitat is not being kept up. the beaglersalliance has as one of its basic missions to help improve the quality of the habitat we have remaining. the focus of the extended hunting season is not on getting a limit of rabbits, research is already available to show indiana has no problem in that realm. the extended season is being looked at to offer more hunting opportunities. unless we have a large drop in population growth and farm incomes increase sufficiently to allow the farmer to leave more land available for wildlife there isnt much we can do about that part. improving the habitat and increasing hunter opportunities is something that we can improve.

i was hoping that with the large number of field trialers on the boards that we could get input from them on the future of field trials on state ground. as you know indiana is about the last state to give the public land back to field trialers. and even so its going to be very limited, and on just a few state properties. some of the property managers are making moves already to insure that field trialing is not coming to the property they manage anytime soon. should we maybe start several threads to discuss more than one issue. we have an opportunity to make some positive impacts on our sport. collectively we can make a differance.

lets continue to debate the extended season idea and also bring in some new ideas on other subjects. we certainly have a negative dog sentiment in our indiana dnr, and without the dogs our sport would not be as enjoyable or productive.

[stanimals2]

Here in Ohio I think we have a liberal season and bag limit. I agree with several of the post in that we have far to much predation. In the last 15 years the yote population here has more than doubled and it should be legal to cull the heard of cat owners! thats right I said cat owners I live in the country in a pretty isolated area bordering a state park and for some reason every derilick unfit cat owner in the county feels this is the perfect spot to dump their now unwanted cats. I turned in 4 last year to law inforcement but probably saw 10 times that many and couldnt get thier license# talk about something that needs neutered. I have tried to run a couple down probably a real good thing I didnt catch em, Stan

[jackrabbit]

unfortunately these are folks that dont care much what the law is or how what they do effects others. last year my young and inexperianced son decided to go out to salamonie and scout for a spot to deer hunt. he has just sighted in his new knight inline and not thinking left it where it could be seen in his locked pickup. when he returned an hour later the side window was broken out of his truck and not only was the gun gone, but so was his tool box and instamatic camera he used to take pictures of the hunts he and his buddies went on.

there are so many cruel, unthinking, and selfish actions taken and im sure i dont have an answer for them. it seems the authorities dont either because it seems to get worse as time goes by.

i also feel that these are not areas the fish and wildlife commission committee will dwell on. but its good to be able to vent on occassion. i find myself venting quite often these days....lol.

[Bev]

Mobeagles said a mouthful. With appropriate habitat, rabbits can keep their balance against natural predators. If there was anything to take to the DNR, it would be a moratorium on land developement and new housing contractors. Every time I see a new housing developement go up in an 80-acre field, I wanna puke. Perfectly good pre-existing homes remain empty and for sale, and I know that in less than ten years, many of these new homes will be empty, the roofs sagging, and the siding warped and falling off. It isn't worth the trade.

[jackrabbit]

i know exactly what you are talking about bev. ive sure lost my share of good hunting spots, both rabbit and mushroom, to housing developments. and even timbering. its frustrating to say the least. i do have a feeling that its not something the fwcc is able to deal with.

field trials is though and dogs are not something the property managers want on the state ground anymore. salamonie is doing everything they can think of to position themselves so they dont have to allow field trials. and the fish and wildlife people are on their side. its all being done by blaming pittman-roberts.