Chocolate and White

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:53 am

Hi guys I've been checking out your site for about two weeks and decided to join. Ive got a question. I bought a Cholcolate and white 9 month old puppy that is turning out to be a keeper. I breed to run rabbits and only breed for field hunting and only like to breed the best dog to get that. I like the Chocolate and white color of this dog and want to breed her for more. I have a very good tricolor male and a friend has a very good red male. Which would be better to breed to get the most chocolate and white pups. Ive breed these males before and the tri line is mine back 10 years. When In breed these males they throw thier color not 5 different colors. I have a friend I can breed to who had a chocolate and white male just like my female but the male is not my caliber of hunting dog. He can't circle a rabbit on his own and is pretty much a pack dog in my personal opinion.

CPC · Post by **CPC** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:59 am

MrJ
If you are breeding for color, then breed to the good red male you friend has. Chocolate/white,Red/white what ever you want to call it is a recessive trait. If you Tri is Tricolor 5 generatons back, I will go out on a limb and say you will not get a Choc/white or red/white pup, this would be highly unlikely. I am not a genetic whiz, but this should hold true.

I raise red/white, chocolate/white but most have little white on them. They are red in their pedigree at least 5 generations. If I would breed them to a "true" Tricolor, I would get all black, white and tan color on the puppies, no red/white pups. The next generation could have some if breed back to a red hound. Hope this helps, I know its a lot of babbling. Maybe some else will add to it.

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:09 am

Thanks CPC I breed Red and whites and had never seen a chocolate and white until I bought this one. I apreicate your explanation on how chocolate and whites come about was wondering about that when I wrote the post.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:21 am

Please, do yourself and the beagle community a favor and breed for ability instead of color and let the color fall where it may. There are usually too many varibles to be able to predict color anyway.

CPC · Post by **CPC** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:35 am

Redtick
I read MrJ's post again, after reading yours. He has a good tricolor and his friend has a good red male. If both are good and throw good offspring, then why not breed color into the scheme, if he wants a certain color? If breeding for traits desired was so easy then some people would not have the need to breed as often as a lot of people do.

Lefgren-Lane · Post by **Lefgren-Lane** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:51 am

If the genotype of the parents are known then the probabilities of certain colors etc. showing up in a litter are pretty easy to compute. Here is a web site that has a basic primer and some free software you can download to mess with color inheritance. I have not tried it (my op sys is too old, Need Windows 98 and above) and do not know how good the beagle stuff on it is, but it looks like it would interesting and educational to play with. If anyone trys it let me know how it goes, or if you have questions about color genes in Beagles let me know.

The web site is: http://www.tenset.co.uk/doggen/indexus.html

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:49 pm

Thanks guys I breed for performance 1st and color second and over the years have only bred Tri-colors and Red/whites. Im going to go to the gene site and see if I can learn somthing as I know little about breeding other that what I have learned form doing it(OJT). Ive almost gotten to where I want to be with basic traits though like every good beagler Im not completely happy. Color does fit into my breeding plan to the point and I dont like looking at litter mates that are 3 to 4 diferent colors. I know Im the new guy on the block and I know many of you have good/excelent dogs but when you put'em on the ground to run Mr Cotton tail to the gun I think I can hang in there with most of you and anyone that might in anyway feel Im not breeding to the standard....Well theres and open invite to come school me if you can beat me. No Harm no Foul.

Thanks again for all the information.

Have a good one

Bobby Jenkins

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:33 pm

Lefgren-lane thanks for the info I really apreciate it.

Bobby Jenkins

Roy Pasmore · Post by **Roy Pasmore** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:12 pm

There is A kennel in Middletown Ohio called riseing sun kennels owned by A family named Paul and carl Webb They breed for red and white and have it pretty well perfected They all so have very tuff compitition hounds in the hunts that win on the bench all so. give them A shout they love to talk dogs.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:56 am

I breed English Coonhounds coonhounds which often come in redticks, thus, my user name. I often get the chocolate color you desire. It comes from a mixture of redtick and bluetick genes in English coonhounds. It is an undesireable color in redticks, most folks prefer a bright, cherry color redtick.
As for color in beagles, I prefer a blanketback tricolor but that didn't stop me from buying a very good lemon and white beagle female this week. I think breeding for color weakens the breed. There certainly must be other differences between the 2 males besides the possible color you may get. If the ability is the same, I would bet one of them has better conformation than the other. Or, one of them has a better mouth than the other. Or, one of them has better dogs in the backround than the other. I don't think breeding for color is good breeding. That is just my opinion, you are welcome to yours.

matts · Post by **matts** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:16 pm

me and paul webb breed dogs back and forth ,,they all are rising sun hounds,, we both have some pups avalible right now,,you can call me at 513-465-7887 or paul at 513-423-4578,,they are some beatiful chocolate pups,,matt

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:22 pm

Thanks for the offer matts. The dog I have is actually a Liver or Cocolate Tri- color which Im assuming your saying you have. Im real happy with this dog,her speed line control, how she handles, hunts and never gives up so I will proably try to back track through the guy I bought her from to where she came from and get the same stock. If not I might give you a call. I proably won't breed her until 2006 as I like dogs to be over 18 months to breed but plan my breeds about this time every year and try to figure what Im going to sell out of my pack come fall and whats I have to work with to replace them. Got to go run dogs instead of talk dogs this afernoon and need to leave out of here by 3:30. You all have a great forum here. Really enjoy it.

Thanks and have a good one

Bobby Jenkins