The American Beagler Forum

Should the owner get any credit at all if he has nothing to do with the making of the dog other than the $$$$$$$$$$$$. I guess a similar question could be raised on Horses etc...

This should get interesting! First of all for me I would be the owner trainer conditioner and handler. I train my dogs to hunt the way I want them to hunt for me. Now to get to the subject. Remember this is just my opinion. I think some crosses are better than others. Some consistently produce good dogs others dont. This would be credit to the breeder. However a pup from agood cross may not be as good a dog as one from a less proven cross if it is trained wrong or mishandled. So this would fall onthe trainer. Even a pup from a good cross that has been started well could be ruined or improved depending on the amount of time it is in the field or what dogs it is ran with for example a good pup or young dog can be ruined by a mouthy or overcompetitive dog. This would fall on the handler. So I dont think there is aclear cut answer here. You would definetly want a dog bred for the traits that you most like however that dog must be handled in the correct way for those traits to be fully developed. For some it may come natural but iBelieve those are far and few between. And even then they could still be ruined by the hunter. So I think it just depends on the situation.

The breeder = 60%
because they chose the cross, w/o the breeder there'd be no pup

The person that starts the pup = 15%
becasue they provided time and opportunity. w/o them pup wouldn't run

The conditioner, get the dog in shape = 13%
becasue w/o this the dog couldn't keep up and endure the trial

The handler at the trial = 12%
Becasue w/o the handler the dog wouldn't be able to compete, but is just transportation

The owner 0% if nothing more than just owning it and doesn't particpate in any of the above than no credit is worth giving

The Branko's just because everyone loves to give them credit for everything = Simply ridiculous and moronic

In many cases these are all one and the same, but there many circumstances where it is impossible so it is a TOTAL team.
example...I have a dog I think is really worth trialing, BUT i work weekends and couldn't attend, so I would need a handler. or I have a good dog but there are NO trials around me. I would need to send my dog to someone, again, it couldn't finish w/o a handler.
or
I have a kennel full of hounds and Know I just wont have the time to put nto the pup but wan't to keep it as pasrt of the future of my kennel I would need someone who has the time to get it started for me or a starting pen then somone to run and get it in shape for me then possibly someone esle to trial it for me
or
I live in the NW and there are no LP trials out here but there are plenty of hare and I would like to see the hound run in that format. I would have no choice but to send in to someone back in the NE to trial it.
Then it does well and finishes. Now I would like to see it run in an SPO format, so off to PA (more clubs and trials than any other state) so someone could train it and run it to try and finish it.

Mybeagles I saw in another post you said for someone who doesn't do it all makes it less. If you have a moment could have the directions in longitude and lattitude of the perfect world where nothing ever comes up or stands in the way of what needs to be accomplished. My family and I are thinking of relocating and this Utopian Wonderland where everything is just "Roses" you speak of sounds just "PERFECT" for us.

But I bet if a place like this does really exits The KRPAN's probably had something to do with it (sarcasm GOES both ways)

Respectfully

Goes

i voted breeder because obviously if not for him you wouldnt have ANY dog much less a great one.

my real answer would be:
id have to give the breeder 60% credit and the "trainer" or person who actually runs the dog 40%.

you need a good foundation to start with (breeder) and then you need someone to "finish" the project so to speak (trainer). thats my thoughts.

If the dog doesn't have the right genes, the best trainer that ever was born can not train him to be great. On the other hand, beagles with the genes it takes to be great are often ruined by poor trainers. A handler shouldn't get too much credit for a well bred, well trained dog winning, but in some trials a handler plays a part in calling the dog and in others, a well connected handler may get some favoritism. So a handler does play a role. I say 40% breeder, 40% trainer, and 10% handler is about the right amount of credit each should get for a great dog. Unfortunately, some so called "great dogs" with titles may not be that great because of either poor or corrupt judging and 90% of these dog's so called greatness is because of the handler . Those are the counterfeit "great dogs".

Redtick wrote: I say 40% breeder, 40% trainer, and 10% handler is about the right amount of credit each should get for a great dog. Unfortunately, some so called "great dogs" with titles may not be that great because of either poor or corrupt judging and 90% of these dog's so called greatness is because of the handler . Those are the counterfeit "great dogs".

40% breeder
40% trainer
10% handler

90% total

I guess the other 10% goes to the Krpans.

Just kidding ya Redtick. Where would you put the other 10%, just out of curiousity?

goes1, this is an opinion poll. Perhaps for some it doesnt take anything away if others do most of the work. Have you ever had a dog that you bred, started, handled, and finished? Didnt that make you feel better than a 2 year old dog you purchased and just start entering them in trials? I could never get attatched to the dog when I purchase a finished product. I always feel like Im pulling for the dog I have more time and energy invested in. This is just how I feel, Im not suggesting that anyone change the system they have, nobody would anyway!0 This sport has much to offer to everyone, and as long as your happy with your program, carry on!!!!!!!!!!

THE CREATOR!

I am where there are not many Beagles to chose from. Getting them off the plane is the name of the game. I gotten many off the plane and I never change the way I hunted them. I never had any luck haveing a pack of hounds until I got them from Branko. If you hunt them all the same and the biggest part them don't make the cut, then some do of

from the same blood line. I say the breeder is 80 percent. Or the insight of the breeder is the biggest part that any of us can do. I say they are program at birth and insight to read what others fail to see as breeder is
the big deal

I voted for the breeder. I think like a lot of people, that a majority of all a dog is ever going to be is in them at birth. The rest is up to how you handle them and what kind of dogs you run them with. I think the owner can ruin what a good breeder made. I have been guilty of it myself and have tried to learn from my mistakes. I hope that I have. I'm sure I will ruin one again someday, but I'll keep trying until I get it right. (lol)

No person should get credit at all!!!!!!! The dog is the one the credit should be given to. The dog is the on doing all the work. Give credit where credit is due!!!!

Bobeye, let's give the other 10% to pure luck. LOL.

Chuck Terry wrote:THE CREATOR!

Good answer and its right. Then the Breeder. Then trainer.

I say: 50% to the dam, 40% to the sire and the other 10% is divided between all humans involved.

tommyg wrote:

Chuck Terry wrote:THE CREATOR!

Good answer and its right. Then the Breeder. Then trainer.

I took the CREATOR to be the breeder.