Old bloodlines search

[Randy Osborne]

Who breeds and raises FC Mountaineer Sonny and FC Round Pond Mr T bloodlines of dogs? Thanks

[moonrunner]

Randy,
That is going back a ways. FC Mountaineer King was one of the hounds Joe Wingate's line goes back to. Sonny was out of King/Whitey. I saw in one of your old posts that you mentioned Joe. Have you contacted him?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

John Hall from Vermont who at one time was the spokesperson for the Vermont Fish and Game Dept. used to keep hounds with Mountaineer breeding.
Been many years since I talked with John so don't even know if he still has beagles.

[Randy Osborne]

Yes I did contact Joe years back when I was just going full time rabbit dogs , but for just running cottontail here in Florida I went in a different route after looking around and seeing different styles of dogs.
I knew these dogs were from way back and wasn’t sure if someone was line breeding these dogs. I run a spo type of dogs for rabbits here in Florida and seems to be working pretty good for me!

I’m wanting to do something I haven’t done in maybe 35 years or more! I’m wanting to get some faster type big dogs with really a good nose to run on deer! Yes we have deer hunting with dogs also here in the south! It is hot and dry for the most part and need a tough no quit, good nose type of dog for deer hunting here.There was a man named John Mclin down here in Florida years back that spend many dollars and time buying and bringing different bloodlines down here for this purpose and found these bloodlines worked out the best according to him. He has been passed for sometime now. I wasn’t interested in that type of dog for running rabbits and I keep my rabbit dogs off deer! I will still keep my spo type of dogs for rabbit hunting though. There probably is some bloodlines that are just as good but since he did all this work I thought I would try and find some of these bloodlines. He said the hare dogs were the thing for deer hunting. He was after open mouthed cold trail dogs also but not dogs that got stuck and boo hooing around on cold tracks.

[Randy Osborne]

Thanks, Shady

[Randy Osborne]

Thanks, Shady
Any ideas on more bloodlines like described, I'm all ears! It's hard to know what is like that (bloodlines) unless I was closer and could see for myself. I know a lot of you guys have seen first hand and some have been at it for a long time. That is one thing good about some of these dog websites! I think John used to mention Tom Sharpe many years ago but not sure. That is going way back again though! Thanks

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Some might take exception but I've been told that the Turbo dogs were heck on deer.
Don Hoog who owned F.C. Turbo Powered By Prop said that he was one heck of a rabbit dog but that he couldn't keep him off the deer. Others told me that he'd leave a running pack on rabbit at a field trial and break off on a deer.
I've seen several that were hard to get broke to leave the deer alone but once broke were "dead broke" rabbit only.
You won't have to worry about the Turbo dogs being fast enough. They all seem to have plenty of foot.
You mentioned something about cold trailing. From my experience the dogs with a lot of Turbo breeding do not cold trail much. Usually if they're opening they're running -- now I'm talking rabbits.
You mentioned a tough / no quit type of hound. I would say the Turbo dogs meet that requirement in spades. A ton of bottom.
Hey ! If you get any you just might want to try em on rabbits. They make pretty nice rabbit dogs too !

[Randy Osborne]

For deer I want open cold trail dogs also. When your trying to get that ole buck you want to know when he is up and running and be in front of them as much as possible! I know with the new type of gps tracking devices we have a more available tracking than before though by knowing where the dogs are. I love to hear them trail then switch over to a running bark! It reminds me of when I cat hunted for most of my life with walker hounds. Road hunting and tracking those cats and hear them trail and change over to running, what fun! Once in awhile they would strike out of the box or hit a hot cat track but most of the time had to trail it up.

[Beagle Huntsman]

It will be tough to find any of those old bloodlines. Most everyone with that type of hound has switched to or crossed onto Branko bloodlines by now. Maybe you could try some of the modern hare bloodlines.

Why not use Walker hounds? The field trial Walkers are nearly impossible to keep off deer, I hear. Do they drive the deer too hard for the gunners?

[Randy Osborne]

They mostly field trial walker hounds in pens these days and have about ruined them for outside hunting. Mostly breeding for speed only for the trials in the pens.They aren’t the type of walkers I used outside in years back. I’m wanting something not as fast for deer hunting anyway. I have seen some beagle/walker cross dogs that were good deer dogs in the past. The older I get the less I want to rip around trying to get ahead of walker dogs anyway! I don’t want big walker size dogs either. We mostly track hunt here. We have plenty of roads in the WMA forest and find the bigger tracks crossing them and put the dogs on our selected track. Hopefully a buck track! Sometimes the track may be pretty old by a hour count (6 hrs to ?) and you need a good cold nosed dog for some of these tracks. It is mostly real sandy here in our area also and dry. Deer aren’t just all over every where like you might think in your mind here. I’m there hunting with friends and family and love hearing the sound of the race more than getting the deer for me anyway. Lol.
I have been having some really good rabbit hunting also with my rabbit dogs!

[Beagle Huntsman]

Very interesting. I understand what you want better after reading that, but don’t know where to send you for a hound like that. Perhaps try the Turbo line, as Dana suggested, or try to find someone in the south who has bred Beagles for deer hunting. Maybe check out the Sourhern Hound Hunting magazine.

Incidentally, what you said in your first three sentences could also be true of today’s large pack hare beagle, in the opinion of some.

[Randy Osborne]

I was hoping this would give you ya'll a better picture of why and what type of dogs I'm looking for! I know hunting for deer is a no no with dogs up north! Thanks for reading something that wasn't rabbit running and for the replies and anymore idea's down the road! I'm so glad we have these hunting sites to discuss hunting and dogs. I love talking dogs period! Looking forward to many more topics and chats! Merry Christmas to all! Thanks

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Over my hound dogging career I've had the opportunity to pretty much get after all game chaseable at one time or another.
When hunting bear we often would strike off a bait that had been visited sometime during the night. There was usually one specialist in the pack that we would free cast and let him cold trail and line out the track and then turn dogs in to him. And boy you could tell when they jumped him!
We also ran Bobcats on snow. Most times we'd find a cat track after a fresh snow that was made some time during the night. Put on the snowshoes and walk the track out with the hound on leash until he started to pull and open some before casting him. This could be a mile or more and you needed a dog with plenty of nose.
Coon hunting it was not unusual at all to turn a hound lose several hours after it had been dark and have him open up cold trailing along a creek where the coon had been feeding before closing the gap and be running him for real.
In these situations you needed and appreciated a cold nosed hound that had the brains and the nose that could take that old track and work it up to a chase.
I don't know what deer dogging is all about. I've run plenty of deer over the years with hounds BUT never intentionally. I always figured it was a case of a hound having a deer jump up in front of them or that you turned out on some that you didn't know were there and they had a red hot one going and couldn't resist. If I ever thought I had a hound that would work an old deer track and actually cold trail one up to jump it he probably wouldn't come home with me.LOL.
Maybe some rabbit hunters like a beagle that will cold trail. I can't stand it ! I'm not talking about a hound that will pop a couple times or even a minute or so before they jump. I'm talking about the hound that is trailing around for 5, 10,15 minutes or more without moving out or jumping the game. I've seen too many that spend way too much time booing around when they don't have enough ability to take it on out of there or they don't realize that there isn't enough scent there for them to do anything with.
Hounds that can take a cold track and MOVE it on out and turn it in to a run are priceless.
Anyways just my 2 cents. Good luck with your deer dogs.
By the way, the Mountaineer bred dogs that I was familiar with in N.H. and Vt. back in the day weren't really considered that fast.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Agree with all Dana said. I have spent so many years breeding for deer proof hounds that I’m not sure mine would be very easy to train for deer running. Don’t plan to find out. And I would never tolerate a hound that left a rabbit chase to run a deer (as mentioned earlier), nor would I tolerate one that had to be stopped off deer more than a couple of times.

[Randy Osborne]

Yes, I don’t put up with my rabbit dogs running deer or any other stuff either! I also don’t like dogs that stay in a spot trailing and not productive! Yes this is a little different for me also as I have tried keeping broke hounds for many years now even when I had walker cat hounds!

Enjoyed the read Shady! I see others have a background other than beagles years back!