Old bloodlines search

[TRK]

I saw some dogs out of Murphy's Buddy that were the type you describe. If my memory serves me correctly Buddy went back to some of the Mountaineer breeding. He produced some dogs with incredible nose power that could run when other dogs couldn't and they would open on a colder track. Some of the best I have ever seen in extreme conditions. Hot and dry or extremely cold and crusted snow.

[Randy Osborne]

Is this Buddy dog a FC as I can’t get a pedigree to pull up? Trying to look how he Is bred? Thanks for the post

[moonrunner]

Randy,
I am pretty sure Murphys Buddy was a littermate to FC Joacyns Elvira. They were out of Joacyns Sweet William x Joacyns Mountaineer Suzy. William was out of FC North Bend Billy Grimshaw and FC Madge Scott. Suzy was out of FC Mountaineer Sonny x Nonesuch River Dolly.

JOACYNS was used by Joe Wingate before he started using Wingate name on his hounds. If I remember correctly, Joe said Buddy was injured jumping off tailgate and he did not think he would be able to run in hare trials. He would be able to give you any info you need.

[TRK]

I don't know if Buddy was a FC or not. I never actually saw him but saw several out of him that had great nose. I think there was a dog out of him named Buddy One that was bred some also. I do remember a friend of mine talking about the original buddy running a rabbit across a mowed field in extreme heat at a trial when nothing else could run. I saw a female out of Buddy run a track on a paved road.

[TRK]

If you look up Mt State Buddy one I think you can find a pedigree on him.

[Randy Osborne]

Also looking for dogs that go back to Brad Ju’s Bella Donna that are line bred from way back.
Shady Grove mentioned John Hall’s name earlier, does he still have dogs? I tried to look up his kennel and name but no luck.
Does anybody on here no about the dogs they call fox beagles? I know they started running some beagles on fox years back and ran a lot in pens and some are good sized dogs. Maybe to big for me! Have they got like the modern day walker dogs that are run mostly ran in pens and don't make good outside dogs, because they keep breeding for speed only and for pen running mostly? I have a guy in NC that says he has fox beagles and they do it all but are out of fox beagle trial dogs. I get real tickled sometimes by my idea of a complete dog from what others idea's are. Not to say they are wrong but just my opinion! I always say feed what you like! I like to here others idea's and opinion's anyway as I might learn something new! Learn a lot sometimes by just listening and not talking! lol
Been having some good rabbit races lately but in another month,the WMA's will close till around the end of October and will have to run real small places here and there then. Getting harder and harder to keep these small places as development increases here. Thanks

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Randy Osborne
I don't know if john Hall is still keeping beagles or not. I used to have his contact info. but can't seem to find it. Even if I did it would be 25 years old.LOL.
John was the official spokesman for the Vermont Fish and Game Dept. for many years. You might try them in Montpelier, Vt. Maybe someone there could put you in touch.
If anyone would know some of the old bloodlines John sure would.
There is a Canadian Beagles on Fox Association. Several of the very well known I.F.C. and F.C. Champions in Large Pack on Hare were also run on fox.
Dan Kane from Ontario and Bev Cross [owner of this site ] were quite active in the Beagles on Fox trials and could probably give you info. on those beagles used on fox. Dan Kane's kennel name is HAPPY RUN.
Goggle Canadian Beagle Fox Trial Association. Couple of good videos of the running.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Bev needs to chime in on the Canadian experience and Dan Kane.

There was also John McLin in Florida who had some beagle on fox trials about 40+ years ago. I remember reading about them in the early Large Pack magazines (later became Better Beagling). They used extra large, fast hare bred beagles at these trials. I believe all the beagle on fox trials were held in enclosures using foxhound rules. Speed and drive!

I think FC Brad-Ju's Bella Donna is too far back to find anyone line breeding that today. She was certainly a producer. Joe Corullo's great bitch FC. Colby Hill Flora had Bella Donna as her great-granddam. Joe called Flora the best he ever had. Flora was bred to Sock-It-To-Me (bringing in another cross of Bella Donna) to produce Waiska River Maximum Effort. There is a lot of this bloodline behind hounds like Pine Mt Chester and FC. Abshire's Junie. Chester had a double cross of Flora and at least 4 crosses of Bella Donna. All good stuff.

[main event`s beagles]

i have some pine mt breeding here and some of donnie campbell stuff absolutely love it. some of it crossed on black ice and some over line bred northway spur with a litter just born carrying over 23% spur and 17% mt zion pete hunt and accountability isn't an issue.

[Randy Osborne]

Yes, John McLin lived about 1 1/2 hours south of me! I probably mentioned before he spent a lot of money, time and trying many different bloodlines of dogs from up north getting this type of dog I'm asking about. Very knowledgeable about bloodlines and kept up with likes and dislikes of his experiments of many bloodlines of dogs. He went up north wanting a little more speed,nose, endurance and kept trying to get a bigger size beagle with a big mouth to boot! From what I remember he really like the FC Mountaineer King and Brad Ju's Bella Donna type dogs and cross. I think he mentioned the Sock It to Me dog also. I think Sock It To Me was a very good looking dog in old magazines of the past, from my memory!. I would like to see his old hunters address book! Probably many of them in the address book are passed now though. John was up in age when he passed also.

[Randy Osborne]

Hey Dana! I love my job (retired)! I just got back to the house from running dogs again. Had some real good running this week, but is very warm here.
Just wanted to let you know that I finally got in touch with John Hall in Vermont. He said to say hi to you from him! He is still working part time at the same place but doesn’t have any dogs now. I didn’t get to talk very long as he was at work today and had to answer the phone lines. He is suppose to send me a different phone number for him personally and not his work number so he can talk more if wanted.
I have tried looking back at old ads from back in yr 2002 to the present time that were posting dogs for sale, conversations and anything that might help me find what I’m searching for but not having much luck YET! That is far back that computer will show old ads to me.
Just wanted to say thanks for John Hall idea and tell you I was in touch with him.

TRK on this site mentioned FC Mountain State Buddy One and while searching the old ads I came across info about the owner of that kennel and conversations about his dogs. Found out he was in WV but had passed away years back. The owner's name of Mountain State Kennels was Bernard Mullinex in Mineral Wells WV. No more leads on that bloodline also.The computer would not pull up that kennel but got lucky from searching and digging out old stuff! Thanks again!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Hey Randy
Ya, I like being retired pretty well myself. Usually run the dogs 3-4 times a week and the beauty is that you can pick and choose when. When I was working, Saturdays was about it so I used to run at night a fair amount. Hardly run at night at all nowadays except maybe in the summer when it gets real hot.
Glad to hear that you got hold of John Hall. Not surprised he's not keeping dogs these days. John is probably getting some age on him. I just turned 70 and I believe John is older than me. If I still lived in the north country I'm not sure how I would do tromping miles through the woods on a pair of snow shoes these days.
Hope you get the chance to chat with John at length. He did a fair amount of Large Pack judging back in the day and I'm sure could help you with some of the older bloodlines stuff.
Funny you should mention only being able to go back to 2002 on the computer to pull up old beagling stuff. I just checked and I've saved all my Better Beagling magazines since 2002. I used to have them back to 1993 but donated those earlier ones to the clubhouse of the beagle club I belonged to at the time.
Don't know if you are on Face Book. There is a site called " Hark N- Hare Rabbit Kountry Northeast Group" . They put out a digital magazine every month that is really good. A lot like the old Better Beagling. There are a lot of old time beaglers / Large Pack trialers in the Northeast and you might chase down some of the old bloodlines through some of them.
Sharon Ward Cate would be a good one to talk to. She was married to Clarence Ward of Green Mountain kennels and after he passed she was married to Howard Cate who was very active in the Large Pack.
Keep em running Randy.

[S.R.Patch]

I remember the adds on Campbells Goodtime Gunner and Taylor's socket it to me. They seemed tall black/tan straight legs hounds.

[Randy Osborne]

Yes, I remember when Sharon was married to her first husband and they seemed to have had some good dogs when they were field trialing. I think some of their dogs had the name of Birch Haven in front of the dogs names.Think they had a dog named Birch Haven Bruiser that was popular back in those days.
Thanks for the info on the hare dog site on fb. I haven’t heard of that one before!

[John Way]

Another avenue to get some hounds names , is do a search on akc web site. Can get trial results back to approx 98. Not gonna get you way back , but can enter a club name , say Upper Hudson Beagle Club , and enter date range. Computer will show results for all of their trials. Also look up a judge. Say John Hall as mentioned. Will show he is inactive , but his judging activity will be shown. Also will show results for all the trials he judged at. Again , this only goes back to approx “98”. Kind of go from link to link on akc web site. Very easy to navigate once you give it a couple goes.