unbelievable speed

[Schag]

When I was 13 years old I found a man that was known to have "Champion" beagles, so I went to his house, and he said you can take that one for a week and if you don't like him bring him back. I asked him about the dog, and he said "Too fast for what I want."

I was excited because this man said he was a fine rabbit hound. So after baseball practice the next day, I took him behind the house. Well, it took me 5 minutes even at the age of 13 to realize the dog was not what I was looking for. He ran or should I say, walked, front-to-back, back-to-front, and never circled a rabbit. I knew I couldn't shoot rabbits in front of this hound so I took him back the next day. When I told the owner of the hound that he was just too slow for what I wanted, he said, well, I have another that is faster than him. I just told him no thank-you and Dad drove me home.

People can certainly have whatever they want, but if these hounds were the only hounds left to run (walk) I would have to say I would be done.

[johns03272008]

People can certainly have whatever they want, but if these hounds were the only hounds left to run (walk) I would have to say I would be done.

i am in no means putting any person man or woman down for what kind of dog they like but what i am putting down is exactly what Bev is trying to tell everyone its the Brainless owner that bred and wanted a brainless dog why i will never understand because i can leash my dog up and tell my wife to hand me a blue ribbon when i walk through the door and say man that dog knows how to handle on a leash thats a champion !!! A ribbon is mearly $10 at most and i for one would love to be on the stand at the end of the day with a beautiful ribbon knowing i have a wonderful dog but certainly not at the cost of a imbred half goat half wiener half basset half beagle and certainly not one that stands still blowing a hole in the ground and stands 6" tall at the withers and 18"tall at the A$$ that is just plain dumb!!

[yorkmtnbeagles]

i believe myself to be lucky in that i get to see first hand all the different formats of beagles.i love the dogs and enjoy watching all of them,some more than others,but stiill,all of them.ill tell you this,the good ones are good,the bad ones are bad,and the bad ones look bad,no matter the foot speed...not to long ago,we had a first on our place,we had traditional brace,two couple pack,appalacian brace,deep south spo,and good old gun dogs out running on the same day.we took turns running our dogs,with everybody getting to watch and judge and discuss what was happening.it was the most enjoyable day of beagling ive had......at the end of the day,everybody still didnt like everybodys dogs,but it seemed everybody was alot more understanding of each others dogs and what each person was trying to accomplish with them.so if you have never had a chance to discuss and be around other groups of folks,you probably wouldnt understand what they are looking for.......and the dog shown in bevs post,was whats called paddle footed.it is not,and has not ever been wanted by anyone.i dont know a single person in brace or any other kind of beagling that would breed to a dog thats paddlefooted...........

[bill huttozac]

Bev - In response to your reply to my post. Everyone is certainly entitled to breed, feed and run what they like. Why not live and let live? Better still, live and help to live !!
I am not a fancier of Brace style dogs nor of "windburners", and have no right to condem what another person likes. Many have no interest in Hare or Fox hounds and again, IMO, no one should trash them. To act in such a manner is a social mistake.
Frankly, I always viewed you as one who stood in the middle of the road on issues.

[Joeyman]

them guys in the video seem to be enjoying the day out with their dogs. I think its nice to see that. Everyone likes something different.

one thing that has me wondering is how could you tell if the dog was cold trailing or not?

[Bev]

Bill, I'm a little mystified at being considered "middle of the road." I hope that's not the general public's perception of me because it's the farthest thing from the truth. (See Patriotism forum) I may have a wide scope of tolerance, but I'm quite opinionated (lol), and my wide tolerance does have definite end zones. If middle of the road to you means you believe I have a wide range of beagle types that I enjoy, you're right. I like any beagle that will hunt effectively for the stew pot. That's a biggggggg wide range of foot/style types.

I simply don't care for Traditional Brace beagling; I've stated my reasons why. I'm glad they have gotten away from the paddle-footed, dachshund-bodied dogs of the sixties, but they continue to dumb down their dogs until they have the IQ of a cumquat, and mindlessly bark in one place. I will also speak out against the groups that took American Staffordshire Terriers and turned them into mindless killers....because that's their hobby. To me it's the same thing except one is dangerous and the other is embarrassing. Both groups may be wonderful, tax-paying citizens, but the fact is, they took a breed of animal and bred it away from its own instincts until its original function is unrecognizable. Hobby or not, how can that possibly be good for the breed? Why not find a hobby that doesn't require mutating something?

Comparing any format of hunting beagles to brace beagles is comparing apples to oranges. You may not like my fox beagles, but they're only fox beagles because that's the game on which I choose to run them. I can (and have) put the same dogs on cottontail and hare. This is what a good hunting beagle does. They are the same bloodlines as those being campaigned strictly on rabbit. When we can take a brace beagle and expect it to do something different, then we can make a comparison.

I'm not going to form a committee to shut brace beagling down because it is a liberty in our country, but that doesn't mean I have to encourage the sport -- by either my endorsement or my silence, and I sincerely and most assuredly hope it will eventually "die nicely on the line."

[Freeman Beagles]

I believe that speed is everyones choice. The one thing that all beagle breeders should have in common is breeding for hunt, jump, and run a bunny. Hunt includes getting in the briers and stopping at nothing. I have heard breagler say that they have one jumpdog in their pack. I was there once myself. That was when we started improving the quality of our beagles. Now every one of our beagles in our pack will bust the briers wide open. We want every pup we raise to have this quality. I believe this is what Bev and most of you in this forum are saying. Breed beagles that will do what a beagle should do. If not, go get a lap dog.

[Alabama John]

To me the main thought is to remember the lesson learned from this.

WE men and women are naturally competetive and the chasing of trophies, recognition and status caused these dogs originally to be bred to track this slow. The slowest, closest dog got the trophy so lets breed one slower. The man that bred the Field Champion dog Bev posted that was on the cover of the most prestegious Beagle magazine of the day, (before Bev) "Hounds and Hunting" was sure proud of his wise breeding and his dogs accomplishments. I'm sure he got lots of pats on the back. Earning the cover was a big, big, deal.

If the trophies had started being handed out to the smallest beagle then they in a few years would of looked like a
Chihuahua.

I'm thankful most beaglers by far didn't trial as most do not today. They breed for what Freedom said very well.

Breed for what YOU want and who cares what anyone else thinks of your dogs, they are yours, they suit you, nuff said!

[S.R.Patch]

I had heard the term Walkie Talkie dogs, but now I guess I have seen them... I personally don't like a "fast" dog, I am too slow myself for that... The dogs I have had were a good medium speed dog. I couldn't stand to watch/feed what I saw on that video.

All that being said, they like what they have, just like you and I like what we have. They probably sit back and watch LPH, Little Pack and Progressive Pack dogs and laugh at them like we are doing at theirs.

If they are happy, then let them be happy. We each drive a different make of vehicle for our own reason, same goes for dogs...........

Emery

I agree with you Em, one of the nicest beaglers I've know was ole Jessie Hicks, he was a brace beagler that had gone from rabbit hunter to brace beagler as age and constraints had increased.
Modern brace is just a wobble in the road of extremes we experience through life, just like some say LPH has evolved to the other end of the spectrum. Fads bring on the extremes and there's usually some hobbyist group along to promote the cause. No rabbit hunter I know would be happy with wild swingers or hole blowers for a rabbit hound of usefulness. But, these people are truly in it for a hobby and from what I've seen, this is the last thread some these older gentlemen have grasp to hold on to their love of the little hounds and camaraderie of old friends.
I think each extreme is a visual lesson to us of what happens when things are taken to far and the balance is lost in favor of style. Remember, Tom Dornin was so overwhelmed by the number of unsuitable AKC beagles at the time, he thought the only resource to use was a show dog to bring back conformation. He said, " if I'd known of the AKC LPH folks, it would have saved much time and trouble".

I've always used the brace beagle as an example of what the powers of selection and breeding can do, tho not the wisest for the purpose of rabbit hunting, they still show how we must keep the "ideal" in mind as we breed and not be lead astray by fads and ribbon chasers, remembering, a useful rabbit hound will never go out of fashion...

It is harsh and shortsighted to condemn people over what you don't understand, as it is to misrepresent what you have and it's purpose...

[rabbitsmoker]

[quote="Joeyman"]them guys in the video seem to be enjoying the day out with their dogs. I think its nice to see that. Everyone likes something different.

Your exactly right there is a smile on thier face if thats what someone likes thats good its whatever makes a houndsman happy it wouldnt make me happy but im not feeding them if everybody like the same style of dog the dog traders wouldnt have nothing to do

[yorkmtnbeagles]

we were at a spo trial a few years back and my father was talking to sam butler.he is a well known,respected spo man.he went on to tell my father that he could take a straight brace dog,and in two breedings,compete in spo.we didnt say anything,but neither me or my father believed this..afterwards, we took a straight brace bitch(which came from a 8 straight generation field champion bitch line) and bred her to a two couple pack male(at best a medium speed dog).we raised two males that i still have from this.later ,we took the slower of the two and bred him to a spo field champion bitch.this bitch had four pups.two of the four are medium speed solid good gun dogs.the other two can flat out run the rear end out of a rabbit...i wouldnt have ever believed it,but sam was right.in two breedings,we went from brace to rabbit hunting machine......from our personal experience from breeding these dogs,i can tell you this,foot comes easy,its just hard to get without overcompetiveness.checkwork and cooperation in a working pack is the hard ones to get..

[Casey Harner]

People can certainly have whatever they want, but if these hounds were the only hounds left to run (walk) I would have to say I would be done.

i am in no means putting any person man or woman down for what kind of dog they like but what i am putting down is exactly what Bev is trying to tell everyone its the Brainless owner that bred and wanted a brainless dog why i will never understand because i can leash my dog up and tell my wife to hand me a blue ribbon when i walk through the door and say man that dog knows how to handle on a leash thats a champion !!! A ribbon is mearly $10 at most and i for one would love to be on the stand at the end of the day with a beautiful ribbon knowing i have a wonderful dog but certainly not at the cost of a imbred half goat half wiener half basset half beagle and certainly not one that stands still blowing a hole in the ground and stands 6" tall at the withers and 18"tall at the A$$ that is just plain dumb!!

The only way you will get a blue ribbon will be by stealing one.

[johns03272008]

People can certainly have whatever they want, but if these hounds were the only hounds left to run (walk) I would have to say I would be done.

i am in no means putting any person man or woman down for what kind of dog they like but what i am putting down is exactly what Bev is trying to tell everyone its the Brainless owner that bred and wanted a brainless dog why i will never understand because i can leash my dog up and tell my wife to hand me a blue ribbon when i walk through the door and say man that dog knows how to handle on a leash thats a champion !!! A ribbon is mearly $10 at most and i for one would love to be on the stand at the end of the day with a beautiful ribbon knowing i have a wonderful dog but certainly not at the cost of a imbred half goat half wiener half basset half beagle and certainly not one that stands still blowing a hole in the ground and stands 6" tall at the withers and 18"tall at the A$$ that is just plain dumb!!

The only way you will get a blue ribbon will be by stealing one.

i hope not!!!