Culls

[bluemouse]

OLD Blood good post and something I might add is some hounds are born to it and there are some hounds made to it. What I mean is that some hounds are born with better instincts and come along quicker than some and then there are hounds that someone takes the time with and spending many hours in the field with that turn out to be good or better than good. Sometimes it depends on the individual who trains the hound as to how the hound turns out. I have seen some owners who need to be culled. I don't really have a dog in this fight but I do have half a dozen potlickers that can run a rabbit and by some standards if I told ya what I have in them they would be culls, so I just keep feeding them briars and listen to the music.

[rabbitearl]

I ve seen alot of dogs run down here in my pens.Seen some FC run also.One of the best dogs I ve ever seen run a rabbit came from the dog pound and paid 8 dollors for him.That dog could run him anytime.Want no good for jumping one but he made up for it in running.Most of the guys that want to sell one around here would be the speed.To fast or to slow.And I know thats a good thing to say to sell one but this is what I see.

[old blood beagles]

Thanks Bluemouse, but one thing that I would like to say to you is, it dont matter how much you have into them, it is how much they are worth in your eyes. In one of my prior post I told about a female that I sold for 1000.00, and that is alot of money but she was worth alot more than that. Some of the guys that are posting on the prices on here say that my prices are to high but yet on another post they state that they would not sell a hound and it will die at their kennel????? This does not make any sense to me, how can my prices be to high but yet no amout of money can buy their hounds. The only thing that I can figure out is they have a great hound and dont think it can be replaced and they might be right, as I have not been able to replace that great female that I once owned but I am having alot of fun trying.
Looking back on it over the years, I see a common thread about myself. I will take a pup and raise it up to around 3 years of age and if it does not suit me I will give it away or sell it. I guess that I am basing my decisions on that great female and not on the hound that I have trained or I just love training pups!!!!!!!:nod: Yep that is it, I just love training pups.

[bluemouse]

Old Blood I know what you mean, I see it this way there are dogs that belong to you and some that you belong to them. the really smart ones are the ones that take you into their lives. And believe me they are something special. This is a trait that can not be seen in one day or a couple hours of running.

[crittergitter]

BunnyBlaster , great post , you are right ! it takes all kinds to make this world go round , didnt mean to lump everyone together , what ruffled my feathers was i read into a couple of post and took it as anything worth less than $750 should be culled instead of sold ! and if that was the case i would not be able to enjoy this sport any longer ! i take great care of my dogs , as good as my family , work hard every day and enjoy what i do , if i had to pay those higher prices i woud have to give it up ! so yes i go on the defensive ! there are so many things these days that only the rich can enjoy , rabbit hunting shouldnt be one of them ! i have no need for a world beeter , just a rabbit dog , dont think i would even want one ! i read on these boards every day about horror stories of a dog got killed doung this or that or got torn up by this , picked up near a road and stolen or hit by a car , , i would be afraid to run a dog like that , just need a plain old rabbit dog !

[crittergitter]

I've attended the A.K.C. Large Pack Nationals,the Southern Large Pack Championship,The National Beagle Club's Triple Challenge,the A.R.H.A. World Hunt,Jessamine County's Superbowl of Beagling,The International Beagle Hare Futurity,The Canadian-American [Can-Am ] Snow Challenge and The Trial of Champions at the Futurity and several State Championships.NOW DON'T ASK ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOUR $50.00 PUPS AND YOUR $250.00 RUNNING DOGS ARE ROUTINELY GOING TO COMPETE AT THAT LEVEL OR WITH THAT QUALITY OF HOUND.iT JUST AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.THERE IS A REASON THAT MOST OF THOSE DOGS GET SOLD FOR BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICES AND THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE WORTH.THE OLD SAYING OF" YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" OR "IT ONLY COSTS A NICKLE MORE TO GO FIRST CLASS" WERE COINED FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!

no where in any of my post did i ever say any of my dogs could compete at that level , or compete at any level ! i am in no way a competition beagler ,i am a rabbit hunter and it dont take that kind of dog to hunt rabbits and hunt rabbits well ! but just for aurguments sake ! how many other guys that have very high dollar dogs can or ever have competed at that level , expecially the ones chimming in on this topic ! those dogs are the Micheal Jordans of rabbit dogs and in reality when you figure in the number of average rabbit dogs in the world , to most , owning that caliber of a dog is a pipe dream , those dogs are few and far between , and even at that level , prolly half are truly great and the rest are field fillers !

[crittergitter]

THE OLD SAYING OF" YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" OR "IT ONLY COSTS A NICKLE MORE TO GO FIRST CLASS" WERE COINED FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!

yep your right , but guess what , COACH will get you to the same place , only cheaper !

[Briarhoppers]

There is no doubt that there are true culls (obviously faulty dogs) sold on this board. But, I think many of the dogs that are posted fall into one of the following categories:

1) Some people just like to buy and sell. Their hobby is more focused on the buying and selling and looking for a deal and what can I trade for than actually running, gunning or trialing. These are the guys that post "Kennel Reduction" - - - - then on the next three posts you see them trying to buy dogs. Often these guys are selling dogs after having them a week or two - no way they could tell you much about the dog they are trying to sell.

2) Others jump into the sport gung-ho, buy dogs and then one year later they are selling out and moving on to their next hobby.

3) Others don't know what they like and just buy whatever kind of blood lines their friend / running buddy has. Then as their running buddies change they sell their dogs and buy whatever their next running buddy has. This is the guy that is all about Patch one month, then all about Turbo the next month, etc.

4) Others think of the bloodlines like baseball cards.....dogs are collected, sold and traded based on the reputation and status of the stud or bloodline. Dogs are sold to make room for the the latest and greatest stud out there.

5) Others have a "sickness" lol that they have to keep buying dogs and puppies....and raising puppies. They typically post I have too many dogs to do justice...which should translate, the dog being sold is fat and likely hasn't been out of the kennel in months.

6) Others have had a major life change (kids, divorce, too old, etc.) and are forced to sell some of their dogs. In my opinion this is your best chance of getting a solid hound on here.

[big mike 50]

If any of you guys have any dogs you want to give away I would like to take a look at them.

[Whitey]

Hi Everyone,

I respect everyones comments on this post, but I believe some people on this post are moving away from the real topic. You shouldn't bring price into this conversation at all. The point is, if people would focus on only breeding dogs that are as close to fault free as they can get, the dogs that would be being produced would be more likely not to carry these faults on to future generations. It is your choice whether to breed a dog or not to breed the dog. Breeding a dog just so that you are able to make money off of the pups is wrong in my mind. There are many people out there doing exactly this! This is why, it is hard to buy a good pup. Just think, if you had the choice of buying a pup from a breeder that only bred dogs that were as close to fault free as one can get, or buying a pup from someone who is breeding any beagle they can get their hands on just to sell pups, which would you choose.
If you have a dog that has a lot of faults, it is fine with me until you start to breed this dog and introduce more of these bad genes into the gene pool, then I have a problem with it. A Cull doesn't mean that no one might want this dog or that the dog won't run a rabbit. A Cull is a dog who's genes shouldn't be passed on. This is some what of a personal choice, since there is no real guide to spotting a Cull. This is why the old timers got together to build some of these organizations and field trials were originated, to weed out the good from the mediocure. I am not saying this is the case now days. Too many have let there personal biases enter into the picture. I am also, not saying everyone needs to agree on everything, and yes there are different dogs for different types of hunting. One needs to just look at doing their part not to pass on the bad genetics to help in the future of the breed.

Thanks for listening to my input.

Whitey

[tinymwoods]

Continuing the culling topic: Hypothetical only!
I have a female that is a little loose mouthed (again not really, anyone that has ran with my dogs knows they are TIGHT). She babbles a little in the check area. She has been run 4 times in 3 years. Raised as a brood gyp. Parents are great dogs. Raised 3 litters of pups from her in 5 years. All pups are running and do not babble. One of the pups (2 or 3 years old now) is a FC and a heck of a rabbit dog. This female was never given the chance as a young dog to realize her potential. She was culled and has served well as a brood gyp. Most people that are looking to better the breed would never own a brood gyp that did not hunt well and had faults, right? The male out of her is one of the finest dogs on the ground and has already produced some great pups. This is based on a gyp I do know of. All of the above is true. All her pups are running and some of them are truly good hounds. A few lack a little and are culls (all from one litter with different sire than other 2). Probably 15 of 18 are in happy homes and 12 of them say they have homes for life. This gyp would be a cull under any beagler, but has reproduced excellently. In my opinion, she has bettered the breed for the superior dogs she has thrown. Maybe some of the culls are not that bad after all.

I have never sold a dog that was not a cull. First dog I ever sold was too fast and had no line control. Second was a little crazy gyp that was way too slow. Third was a male that I could not get started. Fourth was a fast gyp that was a good young hound that liked deer, no matter what I did to try and change it. She was a real good prospect. Fifth was a great gyp that is honest, jumps rabbits, good mouth and line control. Just too slow for my hounds (Her name was Lita, kinda miss her, I regret selling her). The last was a big male that was a heck of a check dog, but no hunt. I sold everyone of these dogs here. I listed everything about these hounds. All the good and bad. My cull fit what someone else wanted. I have sold 6 culls in 5 years. 3 were rabbit dogs, a young pup, and one was sold for her bloodline. If I buy a dog that is sold as a cull as these were, and they were as described, I would either be looking for these traits to fit my pack or willing to take a chance they would change. I would buy 1 of my culls back if she was ever for sale (if buffet didn't want her anymore ). Other than that, there is a reason they were culled. I have 4 dogs now, and all of them would be culled by some of you. Some would keep this one or that one, but no one would keep my whole pack, and that I like.

[dave404]

hey guys, some good reading here and thought id chime in . crittergetter spoke of grade dogs, i agree 100%. Around my neighborhood, the majority would consider a grade dog a cull or i have seen them frown real big when they see a great hound on a rabbit and find out hes a grade dog.
or if theyre not racehorses or windsplitters, the best hounds i ever owned in 30yrs of huntin i gave $30 for one and 75 for another. then after i kept them till they died, i got hooked on the akc papers and have spent a lot of money on bloodlines from branko to indian hills, to about all bloodlines and i still would rather of had the 2 grades.
now regardless of what bloodline ,papers ,or grade, it dont matter to me as long as they can do the job in the field.
i have also seen folks go 1500 miles to get a certain bloodline and pay 1500 or so and the hound be no better than what their next door neighbor had for a few hundred. but you will hear them say " i gave a lot and went over a thousand mile to get this dog" like it is something special by paying so much and going so far.
seems to me, the good ole days of getting out and enjoying a good race is over, too much bloodline this and that, too much competition between hunters,etc..
if anyone has a good grade hound that can do the job and dont want it because it isnt papered, lmk and ill take him.
so many trying to impress the next man, to me, my hounds are my friends and if they please me thats all matters.
in this order i cull -
1.no desire or hunt, one that wont hunt or stands around letting the others do the work.
2.babbling or useless barking
3.one that strays or wont pack, dont have time to solo or take just 1
jmo, happy runnin' everyone.

[bluemouse]

the good ole days of getting out and enjoying a good race is over, too much bloodline this and that, too much competition between hunters,etc.. Not here come on down and I will run sis got her for a bag of dog food excellent jump dog can run her on rabbit and got desire from nose to tail, pretty hound with no papers just a potlicker

[crittergitter]

tinymwoods , well said , now im no rocket scientist , but i can read between the lines , and only one thought came to mind with the question that started this topic !and then prices were thrown in and i interpreted it as , pups worth less than $250 and broke dogs worth less than $750 should be culled and not sold and that just aint right ! the one dog i bought broke is a cull , and i thuroughly love him , wouldnt change a thing about him and he will stay here ! my pups were bought a " bargain basement prices " and i love them , totally satisfied with what they are doing at a young age ! if everyone bought in to some of this logic i would have any of them ! for a guy that likes to run rabbit dogs for his own enjoyment and rabbit hunt with his friends , it dont take a high dollar dog or a world beeter to do that ! i wish people would stop and think that not everyone is on the same competitive level !its not always about having the best ! all those 'culls" out there are what keeps alot of us guys in the game ! even if it means it will take my "cull" a few minutes longer to circle that rabbit ! im in no hurry ! i have said a number of times on here that the day i can do everything absolutly perfect and never make a mistake ! then and only then will i expect it from my rabbit dogs ! thanks for letting me vent !

[crittergitter]

bluemouse , i was fortunate to meet 2 guys from these boards exactly like that , been running with them for over a month now and totaly enjoy it , no competition , just plain old rabbit running with some great dogs and some good BS , the way it should be !