Jeremy, I don't know the people you are talking about but I find it ironic that if someone say's there is cheating going on and they don't name anyone, everybody asks for names. Now someone has named names, everybody say's how wrong it is for you to name names.
Everyone who has been to many trials know that this stuff goes on, the ironic thing is nobody is willing to admit who's doing it in public. People on here who don't know you or the people you have spoken about are siding with the guy's you have named. I just wonder why?
As I said, I don't know you or the people you are talking about. I am just commenting on the knee jerk reaction by some on here who contradict themselves on the issue in general.
You Get What You Pay For
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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hubertsoutlaw
- Posts: 457
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Tim i really thank you for backing me. I just get so tried of the person winning and not the dog. It should not matter if a 2 year old kid was handling a dog, if that dog won give it to him. I do wish I handled it differently but know i directed the pressure on them. That is what I tried to do. When they are judging now, people will be paying closer attention. People need to take the politics out of beagling. It should be the best dog winning and thats it. JEREMY
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hubertsoutlaw
- Posts: 457
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Jeremy Here. What's done is done on this subject. Jeff didn't want to reply, Frank didn't reply, to my last statement on thier pole or my pole. I
said how I felt about How I was cheated. Jeff wasn't there when it happened, so really he has no say. I also never heard Frank apolgize on how he talked to me and how he has been judging me unfairly. I haven't judged him unfair ever and I have apoligized to him about calling him a cheater. Even though he cheated me. I think Frank is probably a good person, because it shows in his son. I think he does judge the name and not the dog. That is my OPINION! Jeff does have a right to stand up for a friend. If someone called my buddy a cheater I would be upset too. If he was though I would not look past his fault. As for the rest of you allowing the home cooking to go on, it doesn't speak much of you all. I gave you the apportunity to speak out and you didn't. Over 2000 people looked at this post and only one backed me. TIM. Maybe not Frank or tony was doing it, I'm sure it has happened to you a lot. That is if you trial enough. JEREMY
said how I felt about How I was cheated. Jeff wasn't there when it happened, so really he has no say. I also never heard Frank apolgize on how he talked to me and how he has been judging me unfairly. I haven't judged him unfair ever and I have apoligized to him about calling him a cheater. Even though he cheated me. I think Frank is probably a good person, because it shows in his son. I think he does judge the name and not the dog. That is my OPINION! Jeff does have a right to stand up for a friend. If someone called my buddy a cheater I would be upset too. If he was though I would not look past his fault. As for the rest of you allowing the home cooking to go on, it doesn't speak much of you all. I gave you the apportunity to speak out and you didn't. Over 2000 people looked at this post and only one backed me. TIM. Maybe not Frank or tony was doing it, I'm sure it has happened to you a lot. That is if you trial enough. JEREMY
I've chinned in on this post several times now and after over 3000 hits and 79 replies I've yet to see anyone justify the $1500.00+ price tag on a beagle. In fact the contray has been pointed out numerous times. I think it has been expressed by numerous people that the BEST DOG DON'T always win. So how about all these titled dogs or dogs with numerous places? If it's a known fact that these competition hunts are judged subjectively and anyone thinking differently is kidding themselves, why then do the dogs placing in them dictate higher prices than one with no title or places that can and does circle a rabbit to the gun consistantly? I learned several years ago that the subjectiveness will NEVER be taken out of competition as the ones doing the judging are the ones who hunt in this format. Until you can put a judge or a set of judges on a cast that is totally a 3rd party going strictly by a set of objective scoring rules you will NEVER totally get away from the subjectiveness. Makes no difference if you have the entire cast as judges each and everyone of those hunters have a predetermined idea in their mind as to what they like or dislike in a dog and or it's handler, which uncontrollably has an impact on their decissions. You can not and will NOT totally remove the Human intervention in trials. So for those of you who make them such a priority of the worth or value of a dog you need to accept the fact that a titled dog is probably the result of subjective judging by a group of individuals with the same likes and dislikes, whatever they may be. If you can't accept the FACT that you and your dog my get homered, buddy judged or flat out not what the judge likes then you need to do as I did and get out of it as you are donating your time, effort and entry fees trying to champion a dog out on it's abilities. It takes many points under different subjective judges to make a champion and the odds of being able to do so on the dogs abilities alone are slim. The only judge of the worth or value of any dog that I buy is ME and as I have stated before and I will state one last time, I've yet to see an $800.00 beagle let alone a $1500.00 plus, titles or no titles.
Wardog, what something is worth is as subjective as everything in your post. Look at this from the opposite direction. What if I say all beagles are worth more than $500 and should not be sold for less. The only judge of the worth of any dog that I buy is ME and I've yet to see a beagle worth less than $500, let alone $200-, titles or no titles.
Now you need to justify paying less than $500 for a beagle. Prove to me objectively why beagles should sell for less than $500.
How easy do you think it will be to convince me otherwise?
You are entitle to pay what you think is fair for a dog, but to ask others to justify what they are willing to pay is to ignore their right to pay what they think is fair for a dog.
Now you need to justify paying less than $500 for a beagle. Prove to me objectively why beagles should sell for less than $500.
How easy do you think it will be to convince me otherwise?
You are entitle to pay what you think is fair for a dog, but to ask others to justify what they are willing to pay is to ignore their right to pay what they think is fair for a dog.
"Watch your dog and SHUT-UP"
Tim,
In order for you to say that ALL dogs are worth more than $500.00 you must have some data to back up what you say. How many beagles have you sold for $1500.00+, how many have you bought? How many have your hunting buddies bought or sold for that amount of money. I have NOT stated that a $1500.00+ beagle doesn't or has never existed but only that I have never laid my eyes on one in my 40 plus years of following beagles and doubt if I ever do. What I did state for a fact is that I have personally viewed several beagles priced at $800.00 that could NOT circle a rabbit on their own and thus NOT worth the $800.00 let alone $1500.00+. To sell something it must first have value. How does one put value on a beagle? I'd say by the dog doing what it was bred to do and that's circle it's quarry to the hunter. When two, untitled dogs do so consistantly, wether fast, slow, medium, line controlled or rough what substantiates the price? What is the price of two beagles that couldn't run a rabbit if their life depended on it? I will agree with you on the fact that the price someone will pay for a beagle is subjective but bear in mind what the purchase is for. I doubt you will find a common ole rabbit hunter such as I paying that kind of money for a beagle to run rabbits with several times during any given year. You will however find people who breed, raise, trial, have a guide service, sell puppies or stud out dogs that would be more than willing to pay BIG money for a beagle as a part of a business. Chasing rabbits with a beagle is a hobby or a pleasure that I do when I have time to do and NOT how I make my living nor is it something that I eat, live and breath for. Buying a beagle is like gambling, there's NO guarantee you'll come out a winner, in fact the odds are against it, but like gamblers, some people are addicted to the unknown when the data is right there in front of their face. If a person desires to squander their money by dropping it into a one armed bandit or into the hands of someone who puts an exorbident price on an untitled, unproven beagle that is certainly their business. What I will say is, that I will bet as a rabbit hunter, I get just as much enjoyment out of my $500.00- beagles and eat just as much rabbit as those who have paid $1500.00+ for their beagles. A NO brainer choice to me is giving me the opportunity to purchase two untitled beagles that both consistanty circle rabbits, one for $500.00 and one for $1500.00! Can anyone guess which one I'm going to purchase?
In order for you to say that ALL dogs are worth more than $500.00 you must have some data to back up what you say. How many beagles have you sold for $1500.00+, how many have you bought? How many have your hunting buddies bought or sold for that amount of money. I have NOT stated that a $1500.00+ beagle doesn't or has never existed but only that I have never laid my eyes on one in my 40 plus years of following beagles and doubt if I ever do. What I did state for a fact is that I have personally viewed several beagles priced at $800.00 that could NOT circle a rabbit on their own and thus NOT worth the $800.00 let alone $1500.00+. To sell something it must first have value. How does one put value on a beagle? I'd say by the dog doing what it was bred to do and that's circle it's quarry to the hunter. When two, untitled dogs do so consistantly, wether fast, slow, medium, line controlled or rough what substantiates the price? What is the price of two beagles that couldn't run a rabbit if their life depended on it? I will agree with you on the fact that the price someone will pay for a beagle is subjective but bear in mind what the purchase is for. I doubt you will find a common ole rabbit hunter such as I paying that kind of money for a beagle to run rabbits with several times during any given year. You will however find people who breed, raise, trial, have a guide service, sell puppies or stud out dogs that would be more than willing to pay BIG money for a beagle as a part of a business. Chasing rabbits with a beagle is a hobby or a pleasure that I do when I have time to do and NOT how I make my living nor is it something that I eat, live and breath for. Buying a beagle is like gambling, there's NO guarantee you'll come out a winner, in fact the odds are against it, but like gamblers, some people are addicted to the unknown when the data is right there in front of their face. If a person desires to squander their money by dropping it into a one armed bandit or into the hands of someone who puts an exorbident price on an untitled, unproven beagle that is certainly their business. What I will say is, that I will bet as a rabbit hunter, I get just as much enjoyment out of my $500.00- beagles and eat just as much rabbit as those who have paid $1500.00+ for their beagles. A NO brainer choice to me is giving me the opportunity to purchase two untitled beagles that both consistanty circle rabbits, one for $500.00 and one for $1500.00! Can anyone guess which one I'm going to purchase?
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Blu Tick Beagler
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I can't say that I have read this entire thread, but did want to make one comment. I've been to Franks club, and drew Frank as a judge at the Ky. State hunt.
Here's the scenario:
It was the first round in the champion class. There were three local KY fellas, and my wife handeling my female. I had to handle a dog in another cast. I had never met Frank before and he had no idea who me or my wife was.(This was a while ago)
If this man was a cheater, a lady that he'd never seen before, handling a dog that he'd never seen before would not have won the cast. His buddies would have won and she would have been lucky to get 4th.
My female won by over 100 pts. To this day every time I see Frank and the fellas in the cast they asks about her.
He's a pretty honest fella in my book..
Here's the scenario:
It was the first round in the champion class. There were three local KY fellas, and my wife handeling my female. I had to handle a dog in another cast. I had never met Frank before and he had no idea who me or my wife was.(This was a while ago)
If this man was a cheater, a lady that he'd never seen before, handling a dog that he'd never seen before would not have won the cast. His buddies would have won and she would have been lucky to get 4th.
My female won by over 100 pts. To this day every time I see Frank and the fellas in the cast they asks about her.
He's a pretty honest fella in my book..
B.T.A.K Kennels
Paul and Bobbie Prevot
Paul and Bobbie Prevot
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hubertsoutlaw
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- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:31 pm
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A paul. You sold breeze to my buddy josh. She is a great hound. He paid pretty big money for her. She is worth every penny. He got what he paid for. what I have heard of you , you seem to be pretty honest. If i could take back the cheater, I would. Frank has cheated me several times. Cheater was not the way I should have put it. I have heard a lot of people call him a cheater but I shouldn't have. What i should have said is that he cheat me over a grug. ALOT! Paul the only dog I have seen of yours or that was yours is a very,very nice bitch. JEREMY
Hey MDH68 ,
When I first started beagling I heard of a dog for $5000 and thought they were crazy. Well after seeing quite a few others run I can see why the price was so high on that dog. He could flat do it ,with a slower dog ,with a faster dog ,or any way he needed to adjust he would smokem the right way. He would run the front and stay on the line or he would let the faster dog run the front and be right behind them and make the turns behind them when they screwed up. Dont get me wrong I won't be spending that kind of money on a dog since I am just a poor boy but if somebody has the change why not buy the best. I believe it was mentioned before but don't judge a dog on its price. Take the dog out judge him for yourself and then decide if it is a fair price for your pocket.
cya, Paul
Sorry , do not take offense to this but my hunting dogs are also pets to me and I would not be overly excited about letting someone take one of my dogs for a trial period. You do not know how other people will treat dogs and I think in a few weeks someone could ruin a good dog in more ways than one. I would be more than happy to go out with them and let them watch them run more than once if need be.MDH68 wrote: I would make an agreement that I could bring the hound back after a few weeks if I didnt like it, after spending time with the hound. If the seller is honest and the hound is worthy of the price the seller has placed on it. He should have no problems with that arangement. If the seller says no to the trial period. That would send up a red flag to me.
Mike
When I first started beagling I heard of a dog for $5000 and thought they were crazy. Well after seeing quite a few others run I can see why the price was so high on that dog. He could flat do it ,with a slower dog ,with a faster dog ,or any way he needed to adjust he would smokem the right way. He would run the front and stay on the line or he would let the faster dog run the front and be right behind them and make the turns behind them when they screwed up. Dont get me wrong I won't be spending that kind of money on a dog since I am just a poor boy but if somebody has the change why not buy the best. I believe it was mentioned before but don't judge a dog on its price. Take the dog out judge him for yourself and then decide if it is a fair price for your pocket.
cya, Paul
The human race is generally gullible. Why would anyone pay $500.00 or more for a peek-a-poo, a pit-bull, a pug, or any other puppy that will only eat, sleep, soil the carpet. or cause the owner a lot of frustration? Do the majority of theses buyers intend to show these dogs, and if so, do they realize the costs involved in such an effort? We, as pet owners as well as sporting dog owners will never realize any profit from our purchases. It is amazing what people will willingly spend their hard earned dollars on to attain a status.
No one will ever recoup the money spent on a pet, yet they spend that money freely. Why? Ego, status, "companionship" which they could get from a dog at the "pound" for a lot less.
Spending $250.00 for a dog that chases a rabbit for pleasure makes a lot more sense , if you enjoy the sound of the chase, than if you expect to make money from stud fees, sale of pups which may never pan out.
How many rabbits can you eat that will equal the cost of the hound?
The use of rabbit hounds for pleasure, whether grade dogs or registered dog, depends on the owners satisfaction of the results. The average pleasure hunter, hunting for the enjoyment of the chase or the hunter using his hounds to harvest a meal, is far different from the field trialer who is looking for a ribbon and expecting a monetary reward for his hounds accomplishments. So many things enter the equation it forces us all to decide which road to take. It makes beagledom a fascinating sport.
No one will ever recoup the money spent on a pet, yet they spend that money freely. Why? Ego, status, "companionship" which they could get from a dog at the "pound" for a lot less.
Spending $250.00 for a dog that chases a rabbit for pleasure makes a lot more sense , if you enjoy the sound of the chase, than if you expect to make money from stud fees, sale of pups which may never pan out.
How many rabbits can you eat that will equal the cost of the hound?
The use of rabbit hounds for pleasure, whether grade dogs or registered dog, depends on the owners satisfaction of the results. The average pleasure hunter, hunting for the enjoyment of the chase or the hunter using his hounds to harvest a meal, is far different from the field trialer who is looking for a ribbon and expecting a monetary reward for his hounds accomplishments. So many things enter the equation it forces us all to decide which road to take. It makes beagledom a fascinating sport.
Music, the universal sound for the soul!!!