What is wrong with people?

[gwyoung]

Gentlemen, This will probably be my last post on this. Just wanted to say something about the current poll. It is a popularity contest and the right thing will not necessarily be what garners the most votes. Somethings to consider when taking your poll. Joeyman said some things in the heat of the moment. In my opinion he was wrong and perhaps his actions in the field could be explained by the sudden-ness of the situation. But this cannot explain why after the hunt was over, going home getting on the computer and calling two ten year old children, Idiots and stupid. This cannot be explained by getting caught up in the moment. As to your poll determining who is right or wrong I will tell you how this decision will be made, keep on confronting other armed hunters in the field and you will see if your decisions are wise.

[bluegrass]

RESPECT PEOPLE RESPECT!!!!!!! joeyman. i would of done the same thing you did. i dont mind a thing people hunting over my dogs that is i ask them dont care what the law says. i feed them water them clean the pens everyday i think i should have the say who shoots over them.... bigdog!

[Fleetwood]

Joey, I like to support hunters who are ethical and promote safe hunting. You, IMO, were wrong in your correction of an individual who may be, and probably is, COMPLETELY ignorant in any situation like he was in today. I would have asked who was in charge of the whole situation and explained calmly, without cursing, the UNWRITTEN rules of rabbit hunting. Again, this in my opinion, but I would have definitely not berated anyone, let alone a kid, IF IT WAS A 10 YR OLD. Maybe you felt okay at the end, but you just made a future hunter look like an idiot and yourself look like a less than desirable person to be around. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND the safety issues first for people and then for dogs, but this could have been the most valuable teaching experience this individual ever gets. Again, I am not trying to be offensive just stating what I would have done and hope this does not happen to anyone at all!!!! If it was an area accessible to others you always run the risk of this happening. We hunt state land regularly and I have been in some situations before that we simple removed ourselves from and moved on. JMO's on this as you asked. Take care.

Couldn't have said it better.

Joeyman, I like you and have always enjoyed your posts and pics/videos. I don't mean anything personally, but, really, you're very fortunate you didn't get shot. Listen, a rabbit, or deer, or fish, whatever, is/are not worth getting shot over. I've been in a situation almost exactly like this before. You know what I did, I caught my dogs and left the area. It wasn't worth it. With all the places you have available to hunt, finding another one surely wouldn't have been that difficult. The Good Book is pretty wise in it's advice to us..."A harsh word stirs up anger, but a gentle answer turns away wrath."

[warddog]

Like gwyoung this will be my last post on this as well. I agree with what he has stated 100%. The only way to reach a final decision on who was right and who was wrong is for this to happen to someone who does NOT take to being attacked either physically or verbally and someone get hurt. When that happens the decision will definately be made by a judge who was NOT in the field that day to personally see what transpired but I doubt that would have any bearing on the case anyway. The only factors that will be considered are those bound in written law. After being a regulator of the law for 30 years I've come to understand that opinions are just as we ALL know everyone has, is entitled too but NOT what makes something definatively right or wrong. I've been involved in many cases in the past 30 years and been told by many administrative law judges that what I would personally do is NOT a fact of law. Once something bad happens it's too late to figure out who or what was right as someone has been hurt and the decision of culpability is in the hands of a third unbiased party that will rely solely on the facts. The judge will apply their finding of the facts in determining the preponderance of the evidence as it applies to the word of law only, as that is what they are bound by. Unwritten rules and ethics will have no bearing on the decision once it gets to this point but may be considered in the penalty. I played the devil's advocate in this situation knowing full well that I would never have put myself in it in the first place over a stupid rabbit. I take issue with ALL that transpired which probably makes others think that I condone any of it and to that I say neither party was right in doing what they did. From what I read in the post and from not only what Joeyman stated but from another that was evidently there, this adult felt they did nothing wrong and even felt that way later. No lesson will have been learned by that man or his kids as they will be told by their parent that they broke no laws. If they are jump shooting rabbit hunters that have never been around dog rabbit hunters then he may very well think he did nothing wrong and legally he did not but ethically and in regard to the UNWRITTEN rules he did. I only hope that should this happen to any of you that the outcome be the same as this one and that no one gets hurt. This could very possibly be a learning experiance for many should it be looked at from a legal standpoint putting aside opinions, ehtics and emotions as the law surely will after someone gets hurt with a knuckle sandwich or a gunshot wound.

[RunninHard]

I only had to read the first post and skipped the 5 pages..... Joey you did the right thing I would have done the same

[golden acres]

Joey
You did what you thought was best at the time. This may happen to you again and you may make a different decision next time. Just remember yelling at a guy with a gun is never a good Idea.

[jumpNrun]

this post has made me laugh a few times 10 year old shootn a guy over a rabbit thats funny if i was 10 and a grown man was pissed at me i would listen i was taught respect your elders and dont sound like to me these kids were taught a darn thing not about respect or hunting and joey had a gun to my friends so 2 can play that stupid game gettin shot over a rabbit come on guys that is silly i can thing of 1 time in my life ive heard on the new someone bein shot over aggravted small game hunters lol someone needed to stop a mudhole in the adults asses for leading these kids to believe you can just do whatever you want thats not what this sport is about and i know its not cool to fight ethier some of you think we shuld all tuck our tails and run well some werent raised that way ethier Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks! ive hunted with joey several times he would have let these dumbasses hunt with him if they would have asked. i for one am not that way im to picky 10 20 50 60 yrs old people dont shoot someone over a rabbit but if they try and steal or shoot at your dog pepper thr asses! lol Way to scold those little brats that didnt think they did anything worng even after what you told them sounds like they wont ever learn and they might be the ones gettin shot oneday! you for one joey are a good hunter just remember self defense if you think someone goin to shoot you over a rabbit lol im done with this post as well i already sound like a jackass

[Bunnyblaster]

I finally had and took the time to read most all of the posts and while there have been plenty of good points made on both sides I have to say one thing. I cannot believe anyone is actually trying to stand up for the older guys that did this. There is absolutely NO justification for the lack of respect they showed for a fellow hunter out in the woods regardless of whether or not what they did was "technically" legal. I suppose I should be allowed to roll up on some duck hunters and hunt over their spread too?? Or maybe sneak up on a fellow turkey hunter and blast the tom he's called in for himself?? I can agree that there is 2 ways this could have been handled and for those of you that would have gone with a little more quiet/teaching method, more power to you. If that's your preference then have at it. But if my kids ever did something like this then I would certainly hope they got their butts chewed good. For those of you that say shame on Joeyman for not helping them out I say shame on you for not blaming the guys that took them hunting. I posted not too long ago about teaching the young guy that was shooting up all the rabbits on a private farm. I can see both sides to a situation like this. But the problem is you'll never win. I highly doubt these guys would have been willing to learn the right way. At their age they should already understand how to respect others.

[Bellmorekennels]

Joey, do not blame you for your actions, as alot could have gone wrong with that guy shooting around your dogs or not knowing where the other hunters are. BUT, as many other guys said, 2 loaded guns and a heated situation are not a good mixture. Thank god,nothing happened. Was in a similar situation over a deer hunting spot, on my property, with a guy in my treestand, when he started cursing at me(on my property) and took his gun off his hook and put onto his lap , i felt the need to defend myself and took my rifle off safety, at which moment I decided ,even on my own property a hunting spot is not worth getting shot or shooting at somebody. So I walked away back to my house and called dec and let them handle it, the guy got a violation for trespasing, and I was smiling while the guy got in his truck with his ticket. I used my brain even though hurt my ego,when I walked away,knowing I was correct in my fight , BUT that is how I handled it, and I live with my choice. As far as your hunt , I probably would have rounded up the dogs, and leashed them and talked to the hunters first before hunting or would have just moved to another spot. But I do know how emotions take over in that situation, I am just glad no people or dogs were hurt.
Do not let one persons ignorance get you down, and hope does not happen to you again!!
That being said Happy New Year to you and your family!!
Anthony

[dog]

i went back and read it again and at no point did he say that he said anything to the other adult or the kids , only the individual that did the shooting , that was not with the others , he was off by himself , if the truth be known the other adult and the kids were just watching the dogs work and trying to see the rabbit , no harm in that , it was the greediness of one indidvidual that caused this , the best part about it is those kids will never forget the time " old such and such got his butt chewed for shooting at a rabbit that someone elses dogs were running " that lesson will stick with those kids the rest of their life , those kids did nothing wrong , they got to see what happens when you do though !

[yoteslayer]

Totaly agree dog, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[jumpNrun]

i would like to apologize then for my statement about the kids i missed that part they should not be brought into this at all it seems. just the dumbass shooter! i knew id seem like a jack as$. point is hope they remember that day and dont ever try it. now i am really done

[dog]

i would like to apologize then for my statement about the kids i missed that part they should not be brought into this at all it seems. just the dumbass shooter! i knew id seem like a jack as$. point is hope they remember that day and dont ever try it. now i am really done

[Briarhoppers]

Just jumping in, been out of town - I read a good many of the posts on this thread but not all of them so I probably am re-stating a point that has already been made.

It sounds like we are largely basing our evaluation of Joey's actions on ASSUMPTIONS. The ones that assume the un-invited were just ignorant and didn't know better conclude Joey over reacted. The ones that assume the hunters were jerks and slob hunters conclude Joey did the right thing. Truth is we don't know and Joey was the only one there to make the call. I wasn't there so I won't judge his actions.

I have encountered both jack ass, tresspassers, slob hunters in the field that has nearly led to fights, calling the sheriff, etc. and I have also run into well meaning ignorant guys that really didn't have a clue what they are doing. I try to handle each w/ an appropriate response.

-Pete

[Keith C.]

One of the first cases you read in Law School, in first year Property Class, is Pierson v. Post.
The case arose from the dispute over the ownership of a fox between two hunters in New York in 1805.
One hunter, Post, had chased a fox for miles across uninhabited land with hounds and guns and while he was closing in on the fleeing animal, another hunter, Pierson, shot and killed it. The court ruled in favor of Pierson reasoning that because the animal did not belong to anyone, the person who seized the fox gained rights to it.
That said I would have chewed the guy out too.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right.
Keith