How Important is close check work?

[hookset]

The way I see it, If a dog has to swing, skirt and reach to stay in the front of the pack he is not worth keeping. Heck any dog can lead the pack that way.

Again, skirting is not the same as 'close check work', the topic here. Not every dog that swings a little will skirt or horserace. Not every dog that swings causes the check. When you group together swinging with all the bad faults you can think of, the resulting dog will be a cull. 'Close check work', the topic under discussion here, is different than skirting the pack, cutting, and over-reaching a hounds ability to stay in front. Just like I was saying earlier about 'close check dogs' being slow, back-trackers, and mouthy - a broad blanket covering 'close check' dogs can become extremely negative real quick.

[Roseland]

In my opinion it all comes down to style,and the different formats. I tend to agree with the format that judges a hounds Negatives just as much as the positives.The hounds that Cheat get picked up,and the hounds that get positive score stay down.

[Owl Creek]

i like pretty dogs.
i dont run them much,
so they gotta look good in the kennel fur when people drive by.
jus say'in.
P.S
Hookset,
when we gona run in ur back yard some more?

[tommyg]

Close Check work is what a hound should do.Work from the inside out.When hounds go into a check and blow out all over the place its plain ugly running.jmo

[Alabama John]

So much depends on what you run in and how rabbits in your area run. If you run in lots of water, you better have a dog that will reach.
Down here, we run mostly Canecutters with an occasional Cottontail.
Dogs run fast, heads up, and that doesn't leave a rabbit any time to cut or backtrack, run a hot track, so its easier to run.
A 15 second loss is rare and running the same rabbit an hour without catching or treeing it is rare too.
A dog that runs a close track will be left and will go run its own rabbit. I only know a couple of folks that run close tracking dogs and we run theirs and then ours. Not together.
Close running packs where you see the rabbit and drink a coke before the dogs come by are pretty boring to us.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

We've all heard the statement many times "that a good dog should be a good dog anywhere".Meaning I suppose that he should be equally adept at running any species of rabbit whether it be hare,cottontail or swamper in any conditions whether they be sod or snow,cold or hot,wet or dry,etc.Up to a point I agree with this statement.But in reality certain styles and/or strains of beagles have been bred and used for specific game and specific areas of the country for a reason.
I've been fortunate enough to have lived in the north in hare country for many years and regularly make trips up to Arrostock County Maine to hunt hare.The past 16 years I've lived in Tn. and run cottontails and also make frequent trips out to west Tn.to run some swampers.My hounds with their Blue Ninja,Greenwell's Reggie,Thunder Blue and Branko blood bring game to the gun in all the locations I hunt them.
That being said.They can be a bit rough,can hit a bit too hard,can get a bit wider in a check than I like and do over run some on the cottontails.In the thick stuff full of briars on a hot southern day they won't look as good as your traditional "close,clean,line control,tight check work" type of hound.That style of hound excels there.
But, when it comes to running the hare up north or the canecutters I totally agree with Alabama John.Those rabbits don't tend to play all the games that the cottontail does.They run and run and run some more.Your close check work dog from my experience will more often as not get caught with his pants down at the check and will spend most of the day trying to catch up.Now running a hare on snow is a different matter.After a hare has been run around a swamp for several hours and has criss-crossed his own trail numerous times if your hound doesn't stay close on the line and pretty close on his checks he's apt to get all balled up and not be able to unravel that hare's track and the race ends.A good snow hound must learn to make the adjustments and gear down.
I find the same thing with the swampers and their use of water.If your hound tends to stay too close in the check and hang up as I've seen some do in that envirnement it's likely he won't keep the race going very effectively and get left far behind by the more aggesive style hound.
Both types can and will account for their rabbit but I like what John said in his last sentence.LOL

[hookset]

Hookset,
when we gona run in ur back yard some more?

Come on down Steve, let's show them that my swingers and your close-check dogs are buddies!

[augerhead]

I think its basic, a good dog is going to please most people. I love one to get on the front end, second means nothing just the first loser. BUT if they care more about the front than the rabbit track then I dont have much use for them either. A Good fast swinging dog doesnt gamble that much, They have what I call a good since of direction they Know most of the time where to look for a lose. In my world I havnt seen many that are what i call close working that can compete. Just because they swing dosent mean they cant run a track or they are stupid. Its pretty simple for me as fast as possible but as slow as nessacesary.Coming back to the point of lose is somtimes nessacesary but as a general rule for me I like them to reach a little,push a lot, in the right direction. The beagle world is full of second string, back up singers once you have had a dog that can really do it, what ever it takes, Its really hard to be happy with anything less.

[hard on a check]

In my opinion it all comes down to style,and the different formats. I tend to agree with the format that judges a hounds Negatives just as much as the positives.The hounds that Cheat get picked up,and the hounds that get positive score stay down.

I AGREE...

[Owl Creek]

sounds good.
we'll have to do that soon.
i thought they did ok together last time i was down.

[barryc]

jlcopeland wrote:
bucks better beagles wrote:
Speed kills. Always has and always will. If a dog swings, gets it and can run it when he gets it, that checker will always be playing back-up. I hate back-up singers and back-packers.

my sentiments exactly unless youre the lead dog the view never changes just say no to butt sniffers and inside out check dogs playing catch up

What you have referenced here are the ones I won't feed because on the snow in a typical Michigan winter this type of dog can't circle cottontails 3 or 4 times by themselves so I can get a shot at them And if they can't do that they are of no use to me. Windsplitters sure are fun to watch in the spring time but they are also the most aggrivating to watch all winter while rabbit season is open!

[bucks better beagles]

Deerhost, what scares me about what you said, "If a dog has to swing, skirt and reach to stay in the front of the pack he is not worth keeping" is that it sounds like you are advocating that we go back to what dogs where 40 or 50 years ago: Absolutely true line runners. The key to your statement is perhaps what the word "has" means. I good dog doesn't have to skirt to get to the front but when a check is made, he will swing to make the recovery. When a good dog, makes that recovery, it is 'katy bar the door' and if your dog is still fiddling with the check, he is going to look real bad. What Augerhead said then comes into play, "second place is just the first loser". I don't want losers of any kind. They must always be competing to get on the front end. That is what a "rabbit race" is. A competition. I try to keep dogs that run to catch and kill. A rabbit that has time to stop and wipe its face is way too far in front of the dogs. JMO

The operative word in the above statement is "good" dog. There are GOOD line runners that can come hard off a check and keep up quite nicely. Problem is that a GOOD line runner will always run second place to a GOOD swinger on checks. I'm talking GOOD here (refer to my 90/10/2 percentage post).

If you hunt by yourself and killing rabbits is your goal then a line runner may be OK. In this sublime scenario, one or at best, 2 dogs are all you need and the older the better. In my world, a dog 4 years old is too old to cut the mustard. They are like me, too old to keep up, not sick enough to die.

I repeat, SPEED KILLS. Please don't think I am being cocky here because I am not. I am only stating a philosophy that I have developed over a very long period of times. I bury a lot (if mean a lot) of dogs each year because they cannot pass the 90/10/2 rule. I bet Augerhead and Hurryup do too.

[Casey Harner]

The operative word in the above statement is "good" dog. There are GOOD line runners that can come hard off a check and keep up quite nicely. Problem is that a GOOD line runner will always run second place to a GOOD swinger on checks. I'm talking GOOD here (refer to my 90/10/2 percentage post).

I respectfully disagree.When you say swings in the check, I am guessing you are referring to a dog that will move out of the check to get on some hotter scent, up ahead of the check area. If this rougher dog is running with a tighter check hound, that explodes out of the check with power and accuracy, then the rougher dog will be playing catch up. By the end of the day, either that rougher dog will be doing the same thing the tighter dog is doing or he will be looking at the tail end of the race behind the cleaner running dog... I have seen it many times, but I will also say I have seen rougher dogs run ahead of cleaner dogs as well. To be honest, after a few hours of good hard running, those rougher dogs are usually running behind the cleaner hounds or will be found under the trucks....seen it many of times...

All depends on who you are running and whose better in what category. Speed kills without control and brains!

[DINGUS MAN]

The statement 2nd is the 1st loser applies to NASCAR but not rabbit hunting. If this statement is accurate than if you have more than 1 dog the rest are losers??????I dont get it but I dont get alot of things. My generation is different than todays not saying better but different. IMO if you have a few good ones, then its about the pack and individual efforts make a great pack and then slotting up they all win. There is no losers with a good pack.

[augerhead]

Dingus man,theres only one winner in any race.IMO Slotting up dosent do much for me,but thats why we trade,sell or cull.It probably would be pretty boring if everyone liked the same thing.I know you cant win every race but I want my dogs to compete.Swing if they can, walk if they half to but always try to beat the dogs they are running with.For me a dog thats content running 3rd or farther back in a pack is just plain boring. Just my thoughts, not right or wrong.