AKC rule change - May change Dog's Official Name

[Windkist]

I have kept the name on every dog or pup that I have bought ,but that was my choice. If someone else wants to change the name of a non titled dog,it should be their choice. They bought the dog . If your ego is so big you have to have your name on it, put a title on it before you sell it.Do not give me that you just want to track your dogs . Are there not ways to track offspring through the kennel clubs ?

I cannot find where ego plays a part here at all except for the person who would willfully take a kennel name off a dog they did NOT breed! Just curious? How would you like it if your son took his new wifes family surname?

I guess I don't ever have to worry about selling any dogs here because a Windkist beagle born here and bred by ME will always be a windkist beagle like it or not!

Leah

[HarleyPA]

Dearest Ms. Bev;

You kind of mis quoted me. Those were two seperate thoughts....

I'll expleain. I'll never change a name on a dog I buy. If I don't like the name of the dog enough to keep it, I won't buy the dog. And if I like a dogs ability enough, I'm gonna buy it, whatever the name is. I don't have a problem with people who see a need to change a name. Its your opinion as to what your dog should be named.

I posted because I have a problem with Leahs' thinking on this subject. I don't see how you can justify haveing to have your name on the dog at all costs, without using the word ego. I dont think you could do it. If it's not ego driven than what is it?

As far as my surename. That'll most likely die with me. I'm sure its not the first surename to end and it won't be the last. I know who I am and my kids will know who they are regaurdless of what name you call them. Just like I posted earlier, its not that hard to find out whats behind a dog, and if you only look at single generation pedigrees. Well, I have little hope for you then.

Leah, I don't want to seem mean spirited. I really don't mean it as a personal attack on you. I my self can't justify doing what your doing. I could justify if you want your name on the dogs then make sure its understood with the buyer, or put it in your contracts. I can respect that. But to spend your money, to make sure that you can then deny someone at a later date. I just don't understand that.

You sell a pup to so and so. It was named by you Windkist my butt . So and so takes his pup goes to fifty shows never wins a single one, gets fed up and sells it as a pup. Little Joey buys it. But his friends make fun of his dogs name. That doesn't really matter, Joey just wants to change his dogs name. Do you let him take Windkist off of the dogs name?

[HarleyPA]

because a Windkist beagle born here and bred by ME will always be a windkist beagle like it or not!

Yeah, thats kinda the point. It'll always be a Windkist, even if you call it something else.

[Bev]

I think I made a similar analogy when I said I would no more think of changing my beloved dogs' names who were bred by someone else than I would changing my kids' names from Johnson to Cross. Likewise, I register and name most of my puppies before they leave here. I registered and named Dolly's entire litter of ten, and did the same with this last litter. I gave one away as a small pup, the rest I registered.

I've seen where in the past a couple of the pups I registered AKC showed up in ARHA with the same call name, but with my kennel name dropped or replaced. I've seen this done with other dogs I knew were registered one way AKC and intentionally registered somewhere else under a different name. They weren't trying to get the dogs' names alike, they simply had no intentions of campaigning the dog in AKC trials so they put their own kennel name on them in the registry they run. Registries don't recognize each other, and the open registries don't even care if you provide a pedigree or not when you register. Whatever, nothing I can do about that, but I would never give permission for anyone to rename a dog I'd named, so I guess I'll never sell any here, either.

First I saw of this respect among breeders was the name Ch. Riverrun Buckridge Marksman. I asked Jim why his kennel name wasn't first and he said, "because I didn't breed the dog -- Riverrun did." I asked him if all show hounds had to be named that way. He said some breeders will insist on the first part of the name, but mostly it's done out of respect for the breeder, and everyone's desire to know into which kennel that dog has now blended. It made perfect sense to me. By looking at the registered name, it told me the dog was bred by Riverrun, owned by Buckridge. The Bucsots have Shaw breeding, Riverrun has Shaw breeding, and this would give me a good idea of where the breeding program would go in the future. As was expected, Marksman (Mark) was bred to a Shaw Female, and produced CH Buckridge Marksman Remark.

Giving breeding credit where it is due seems the professional thing to do, IMO. If I make something of the hound and feel it's worth breeding to my female/male, then I can have my name up front on the next generation.

[Chief Long Hair]

I couldn't have said it any better Bev. You've got my vote!!!

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I bet there won't be too many change their Branko dogs name to their kennel name.

[tiffinis]

I would be content to have a dog in my pack with the Windkist name... jes sayin!

I have been wanting to change the name of one of my labs for 4 years. The previous owners surrendered him, however, I cant track them down to sign the papers for me to change his name.... Somehow or another Ptazakowski's Pepper, just doesn't fit. We were just content to call him Onyx. Since he is not breeding material, it is all rather irrelevant.

[Bev]

You sell a pup to so and so. It was named by you Windkist my butt . So and so takes his pup goes to fifty shows never wins a single one, gets fed up and sells it as a pup. Little Joey buys it. But his friends make fun of his dogs name. That doesn't really matter, Joey just wants to change his dogs name. Do you let him take Windkist off of the dogs name?

There's so much wrong with this paragraph that I don't even know where to start. I don't mean to be mean-spirited either, Harley, but 50 shows before the dog is grown? It's a pup and has been to 50 shows? I know you didn't mean that literally, but let's say the "pup" was taken to 50 shows, deemed not champion material so it's sold or given to little Joey as a pet. Joey can call the dog Face Jenkins for all anyone cares. Why would his friends have to see the dog's papers if the dog is out of contention and competition at that point?

You are what you're named, like it or not. I hated the name Beverley as a child. It was an oddball name back then when everyone was Susies and Dianes, Kathys, Pattys and Lindas. When I got a little older, I learned I could go downtown and for 50 bucks, change my name to Theresa if I wanted. By that point I felt that like my name or not, if I changed it, I wouldn't be me. I feel the same way about the dogs. They were named for a reason, leave it alone.

I've been on the ARHA side of this. In 1998 I found a big red male at our running grounds. No collar, no owner lookin' for him, but a beautiful dog nonetheless, and could run a rabbit pretty much flawlessly. I knew he had to have some breeding behind him. He had tattoos in his ears, but didn't show up at any of the tattoo registries I tried. I was trying to fnd the original owner to return the dog, or offer to buy him. After a while I figured it was a lost cause and I registered him in ARHA without my kennel name (because I knew I hadn't bred for him - he wasn't a Cottontail Blues dog). He was registered as simply Reddman. A few months into field trialing I started getting The Rabbit Hunter magazine. I saw some dogs that had placed in trials whose names started with CPC.......the tattoo in Redd's ears! It had been 18 months since I found the dog and I started making phone calls. I finally located the breeder, Paul Abell, who had given the dog to a young girl and allowed her to name him. He'd been sold to a man in Indiana who lost the dog, and had given him up for stolen or dead. Due to Paul Abell's meticulous record keeping and tattooing system, he had the dog identified within minutes. His AKC registered name was CPC Pippins Elroy Paul. They had always called him Elroy. (Terry Bradley always chuckled at "Elroy", lol)

By the time I found out the true identity of this dog I had already Championed him in ARHA. Had I originally acquired this dog with papers, I would have registered him with ARHA as CPC Pippins Elroy Paul. That's who he was before I got him, and I would have been PROUD to have a CPC dog in my kennel. Even one named Elroy.

Sorry for the book, lol.

[Bev]

I posted because I have a problem with Leahs' thinking on this subject. I don't see how you can justify haveing to have your name on the dog at all costs, without using the word ego. I dont think you could do it. If it's not ego driven than what is it?

Would it be the same thing that copyrite laws and patents are for? Or perhaps the reason you won't see a VanGogh signed by Monet? Artists and inventors don't steal each other's work...at least not ethically. Have you ever seen a Taurus come off the assembly line and sold at a dealer's with Honda's logo all over it? Call it ego if you like. The definition of ego is "self", so what makes the person take someone else's name off a dog and put his own on?

[HarleyPA]

Wasn't Elroy the Jettson's dog?


I didn't take offense Bev. And you know I didn't mean that example literally. It just seems a little rediculous to go to great lengths to have YOUR name on a dog, when anybody whos going to use the dog as you intended, is going to know that your behind the dogs breeding. My point with the fifty shows, was that there was no way the dog was worth a hoot, so it does you no good to have your name on it. The friends don't matter. Maybe the kid just wants to change the name on the dogs papers. Do you let him? It doesn't really matter. The point was the dog does You no good, so whats the point of having your name on it?

i see your point about naming dogs to show their background. However, I'll use a black and white example here, what happens in a case like Branko? Branko has different lines IMO. So just cause a dog has the name Branko on it, does not mean that that dog comes out of Jack. But maybe thats what I want, so how does a prefix kennel name help me discern what Branko dogs I'll be interested in? It doesn't, I have to do my research anyway. And then I know who bred all of it and whos responsible for what.

You can argue that because you were named Beverly, that who you are was effected. It might be true, but dogs don't have that problem. Its the old nature vs nuture question. A dogs name doesn't effect his nature. His nature stays the same, thats what You bred into him. THATS YOUR STAMP ON HIM. Not the name.

Bev, did Reddman run any differnt when you found out his AKC name? IMO, thats an extreme example. What are the odds of that situation happening?

Anyhow, I think in the end we'll have to agree to disagree. Afterall its your money, you do with it what you see fit.

Bev, I think I've been called Harley Barley about 5 million times. I've also had people make me show them my ID to prove my name, and then they still think I had it changed or my parents were bikers. I think the effects are negligible. I'm gonna go get on my hog and ride to the bar.

[Bev]

Throw down a Rolling Rock for me!!!

[bill (flint river )]

buy a pup from branko's. every pup that leaves there has there name. leah is intitled to do this also. i dont care how much u run a hound if it garbage it will always be garbage. i have seen hounds that were hardle run and tought them self later in life when they got lose. it's all about making the rite cross. has nothing to do with ego.

[HarleyPA]

I agree with your post about the artists and copywrite laws.

I can't find anything wrong with that argument.

However, I'll go back to my original statement. YOU SOLD THE DOG. You didn't keep it for a reason. It didn't fit into your program, or you didn't want to use it for breeding.

Did VanGogh sign his trash that he threw out too?

[HarleyPA]

Bill

Never mind the Branko stuff. It was just an example as to how names don't show exatly what the pedigree does.

And I never said that you as a breeder should not have the right to put your kennel name on pups that you bred. I think its a good idea.

I just can't jusitfy spending the money to register a litter of pups with your kennel name on them, so that that kennel name permanetly appears with that dog.

Bev, I don't have a bike. I was being sarcastic. But I'll absolutely enjoy a rock for you.

[Tim H]

Insisting that your kennel name is on a dogs papers is ego. There is nothing wrong with being proud of a breeding program but don't try to justify it as anything else. When words like, ME,my kennel and pride are included in the reasoning, you can conclude there is ego involved.