You Get What You Pay For

Blue Bandit · Post by **Blue Bandit** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:08 pm

Hey MGB, if you wanna fight, stick your head up your butt and fight for air.
LOL

MGB · Post by **MGB** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:38 pm

OK I will.

KyRidgeRunner · Post by **KyRidgeRunner** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:52 am

Hey Guys,

In a recent post a person wrote the following:

If you go to most NKC Hunts you can usually can tell who will have a dog in the finals. Greensburg Frank Fulk, Bardstown, The Ashbaws or how ever you spell ther name. The best dog usually don't win at there clubs, the pencil does. In AKC I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is less likely. You have Two or three judges, judging all the cast. Then they pick what dogs did the best to them. My dog didn't get brought back to the winners pack in the one AKC Trial I went to. Was i cheated? No my dog was not. He got beat! The Five or Six Trials I went to Bardstown and Greensburg Did my dog get beat. In the six trials I have a 4TH and 3RD. I should have a 1st and a 1st or 2nd. I should have made it past the first round on four of the six times I was at Each club. I was Cheated!!

I hope he realizes he has just accused two of the best clubs in Ky of cheating (the Bluegrass Beagle Club was named Little Pack Club of the Year this year). The people he mentioned (Frank, Tony, and Steve) are not the ones he accused. They never judge their own dogs in a cast ( it's against ARHA rules). So the people he says are cheating are the judges from these clubs, as well as judges from visiting clubs that are kind enough to help out.

He also wrote:

They think it will stop me from comming but it won't.

If this guy thinks we have some sort of a personal vandetta against him he should know that when this post was read at our meeting last night it took us 20 minutes just to try and figure out who he was.

Finally,

If this young man thinks he was cheated there is a process for filing a protest. He has never done this. I guess he would rather get on the computer and badmouth a lot of hardworking club members than go through proper channels.

Sincerely

Jeff Pinkerton
Vice-President
Bluegrass Beagle Club

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:22 pm

Folks, yes, if your dog is not AKC then it is considered Grade.

That is not a bad thing mind you. I have two, one is ARHA registered but...he is still grade. However, he runs good so I don't care.

Finding good dogs, especially registered, for cheap prices is very uncommon. Everyone finds one from time to time but it's not the norm. Yeah, sometimes you can buy a young started hound cheap ($200 or so) and it turn into a great hound.

YEs, there are dogs worth $1000. Try building your pack and a bloodline around a cheap dog. Ain't happening for the majority of folks. To find a great bitch that has it all plus pedigree is hard enough and paying top dollar would be well worth it.

Same for stud. If you have a good bitch line and you find a stud that fits your females perfectly, then yes, he would be worth $1000 or more.

BTW, yes, beagles and coonhounds are two different animals. WHY?

Beagles have bigger noses and are shorter in size.
Hounds are smarter animals overall (even though beagles are smarter on track than hounds) and seem to have more common sense and are far less aggressive.

So, go pay your $50 for a dog all day long but don't come here. If I sell a dog, it won't be $1000 but it won't be $50 either.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:45 pm

You said, "folks, yes, if your dog is not AKC then it is considered Grade.

That is not a bad thing mind you. I have two, one is ARHA registered but...he is still grade. However, he runs good so I don't care."

that's fine if that's your opinion, nothing wrong with that. But you must realize it's your opinion. You should say that if it's not AKC then to you it's grade.

In my opinion a dog registered with NKC or UKC is not a grade dog. Try telling someone with a purple ribbon bread ukc dog that there dog is a grade dog, lol. That's just my opinion, but what would give either of us the right to say if it's not so and so then it's grade???????

mundellm · Post by **mundellm** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:46 pm

It is silly to think one registration is better than the other. They are all as good as the members. Anyone can cheat/lie/fake a registration unless a DNA check is done. How many people here do a DNA check? It is foolish to think otherwise.

Buying a dog with a registration ...is buying a dog on faith and trust

Grade dogs are just dogs that you cannot easily verify the bloodlines.

Papers dont run rabbits ...they only allow you to win field trials

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:51 am

I am back from out of town. This post was not to critize anyone and I'm sorry. Not for what I said because it was the TRUTH! Just answer me this, why when Frank has judged my dog when I was handling him he never scores over two strikes but when my buddy handles him he places. Also Frank was shocked when my buddy told him it was my dog when he did place. About the clubs Greensburg is a very nice club with nice club members. I have just been done wrong by one person. The club is great! Bardstown or Mt Washington. I was a club member their for two years before I become a club member at Greensburg. Straight up, you can call bardstown club the most improved or what ever but it won't see a dime from me. Look back at the past issues of the rabbit hunter and you will see the ashbaws do good at that club only. Why, you tell me. As for Frank. He at least has good quality dogs that should win every place if he gets a fair shake. His son is a good man and has nice dogs. For the most part seems honest. I will Judge Franks dogs fair, because it is not Frank I'm judging it is his dog. If more people would realize this beagling would be bigger and better.

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:59 am

I guess why I am getting so bitter is that I love the sport and the more home cooking that goes on pushes that many more good honest beaglers away. I am sorry about the way I handled this and I will aplogize to the greensburg club and to Frank. I should have realized that if I had a problem with someone who I thought was cheating or who still is, to go through the right channels. The other club I feel the same about. My bad I didn't mean to cause this friction. I guess what I'm tring to say (you Get What You Pay For) And What Was Coming to You. My Bad JEREMY.

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:53 am

I guarantee 99% of all AKC registered dogs have correct papers and the pedigrees are correct also. Paper swapping happens but it is not as common as some would like to put on.

I'll stand my comment and most will back me up. IF a dog is not AKC, it is considered grade. Once NKC or UKC closes, then they won't be grade.

Nothing wrong with a NKC or UKC hound as they are just as good ability wise as any AKC dog. Most of the best are all three anyway. My best dog is grade (NKC). However, I have no idea about what lines he is out of except I've hunted with his grandparents but who knows after that.

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:01 pm

Swamper you are correct. One of the best dogs I have ever seen run is a grade dog. I would not own him because I trial AKC and NKC. It doesn't take away from his ability to run rabbits, it takes away from his ability to become a AKC Feild Champion. Nothing against being a NKC Field Champion but a AKC Field Champion is the prestiege of beagling to me. That is where the money, fame and glory goes for having a good dog. You can't make as much money off of a grade dog as you can a AKC registered Stud. Thats my OPINION!. JEREMY

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:19 pm

Jeff I have no problem with you and I know who you are. What good would it do to protest when the ARHA rules give the judges and Master Of Honuds a way out. Its called judges discretion. I know the rules and follow them to the best i can but the rules need to be cut and dry. Also if you are the master of hounds and your Buddy is cheating, who are you going to believe. Think on that for a while. If you don't think there is a buddy system out there you are lieing to yourself. Anybody who has been to enough trials and have enough guts to speak up about it, Knows I'm telling it how it is. So turn my post around all you want and if people want to stand up for whats right they will back me on this one. The best dog don't always win. The person who owns the dog does. Maybe I'll come to the next Bardstown Hunt and sign in as JEREMY Ashbaw and have a chance to win. JEREMY

APFII · Post by **APFII** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:49 pm

chris p wrote:i tell you what i have went through alot of bad dogs and finally spent the money to get a good one if you add up what i spent on 50 dollar and 100 dollar dogs its worth spending the money on a good one why feed junk . i will pay good money for top dog it is alot work to have a dog in tip top condition and bring his best potential out,

I agree 100% . I am willing to pay good money to get the dog I want.

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:50 pm

You all went to another post on me. You know what makes me mad. If you heard the number of people that do talk about Tony and Frank behind ther back about cheating, you would see where I come from. The problem is that they are scared to stand up for themselves or just more mature thean I am. I find it funny that people can talk behind peoples backs and thats OK. When someone actually acts on what they have heard and seen, he is wrong. This is my OPINION! Also the United States Of America, where you can voice it. I'm sorry I just picked out two names because there are more. I did this to make people more aware of the cheating or Homecooking that IS GOING ON! They were my example. I was just pointing this out. I'm not saying Checkmate Kennels is agreeing with me but he has seen what I have seen First hand. I was trying to help not hurt. Don't think I'm backing down because I'm not. I did not handle this cheating in a Mature Manner. That I do Apoligize for. See you at Greensburg at the State Hunt. JEREMY

DarrinG · Post by **DarrinG** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:05 am

Is this hubertsoutlaw guy really Redtick in disguise?

Come now, do tell......

VOILESKENNEL · Post by **VOILESKENNEL** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:02 am

No his name is jeremy hubert