Changes for L.P.

[Alabama John]

Chris Herpin
My son sees the same problem as you and wants to see points awarded for the dog that is running the line with no or only seconds elapsed checks not really noticable by giving points for so many minutes holding the line in front without any apparent checks. Say for every 5 minutes solid gets 15 points or something like that.
Trialing is a contest and we all should bring the dog that has traits that accumulate points if we want to compete seriously. Like a friend of mine once said, you don't bring a mule to the kentucky Derby. In LP most points come from getting checks so if you had a dog that could create and then claims its own checks you would do good. Not a good trait for a gun dog, but gets points in 25 increments real fast.
My brother shot a dog that would always when crowded by a pack turn off at a 45 degree angle to the left and run a short ways opening every breath like a sight race. When all the dogs were pulled away from the line, he would hush and while the other dogs were looking where he lead them for the lost line, turn around and run back and recover the check and take off again. He was smart and would do good in LP I think.

[Buckeye Bob]

ThThese are all interesting scenarios and all have some merit but going back to the original intent of the post.What "changes" should be made....or maybe, would have a reasonable chance of being made.LP has been defined by the scoring system already in place and changing the scoring would change the format.You want shorter checks,go to PP.You want no scoring but the judge picking up the best dog in his opinion through elimination,try AKC SPO.You want the handlers in on the action,UKC.The one thing that I could see changed would be a shorter timespan to be on the clock for lack of hunt.No hunter would ever feed a dog that does not consistantly hunt,LP seems to have evolved into a class of field trialers only(which has directly helped the breed in some ways)and a dog that wont hunt consistantly but can check his way to RCh or GRCh would be tempting to trial unless there was a tough rule in place and enforced.I have judged one champion in particular who was leading the cast with scoring and flat out quit halfway through.The rest of the cast actually kicked a rabbit out of the brush across the trail he was sitting on 10 feet in front of him...he sight chased it 20 feet and came back and sat down.A hunter would not have picked him up,he would have left him in the woods.Think of this...a lot of these personal gripes we have with LP would be indirectly solved with certification.Dog wont hunt?pretty hard to certify on a rabbit that is not up and running.Dog wants to overrun and swing 20 yards giving mouth?Tough to solo a track that way.I propose any certification would exclude existing champions and grands.Also at least a year before the rule goes into effect.

[swing]

I guess I can agree with Bob, but I do think that the extra mouth could be cleaned up.

[swing]

Any comments Mr Paul Perot?

[Blu Tick Beagler]

Here are the two definitions provided by the ARHA for Little Pack and Progressive Pack.

“Progressive Pack competition runs a 6-dog cast, generally of medium speed hounds. In addition to being scored for finding and running a rabbit, the hounds also have points subtracted from their scores for infractions involving their work in the pack and in the check areas.”

“Little Pack is the most popular division in ARHA. This type of competition is run in 5-dog casts and tends to favor fast dogs with a tendency to work a wide check area. The dogs are scored on finding and running a rabbit, with individual accomplishment being a more important factor than close pack work.”

The key to the definition for LP is that the dogs are scored on individual accomplishment. If you look at the two definitions above you will see that many of the proposals don’t fit into the LP definition. I spent 1 hour typing a message discussing each of these topics when I realized that it doesn’t matter what my opinions are. It does matter what yours are. If anyone has proposals that they would like to see brought in front of the Board I’d be happy to do it, regardless of my opinion. Call me and we can discuss your ideas. Home # in the A.M. 740-945-1901. Cell# in the Afternoon 330-801-1808. I’d rather listen in person or on the phone than on a BB. I'll also be at the North American this weekend if anyone wants to chat.

[Mac's Kennel]

The way the rule states for no hunting in the first 30 minutes you can never scratch a dog for not hunting because if he hunts for 2 minutes after you turn him loose and then lays down you cannot acratch him because it says the first 30 minutes of the cast. The rule for non hunting needs to be failing to hunt 15 minutes in the cast that the dog does not hunt. I have seen many times a dog lay around and another dog jump the rabbit and the the one who was lazy and wouldn't hunt win the cast.
To me if a dog cannot jump his own rabbit and run it by himself he or she is not a rabbit dog.

Brice

[DarrinG]

Brice, you are exactly right. Here is the rule direct from ARHA:

6. If the hound refuses to hunt the first 30 minutes of any cast it will be disqualified.



So the rule says ""the FIRST 30 minutes", so if a dog hunts for 2-3 minutes as soon as it is cast, then lays down and watches the rest of the entire hunt, it cannot be scratched for not hunting. Am I reading this correct? If so, THAT needs changed!!!!!!