Alrighty...... Lets Hash This One Out......
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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Chuck Terry
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:26 pm
Warddog: Sounds like the places you find lots of rabbits here. My dogs and I would feel right at home there! We have to stand on stumps and catch them crossing logging roads to get a shot in prime habitat here. I certainly have not seen all of Indiana nor Kentucky - just the running grounds at field trials. I did not mean to imply anything negative about those particular areas! I was just trying to stress that rabbits in different areas and terrain run differently based on my experience at PP US Championships, etc. Therefore, a statement of how a hound performs elsewhere is not relevant to the point I was trying to make. I was simply attempting to prevent a flood of replies of how things are ELSEWHERE. I am not knocking hare hounds - just saying that different circumstances require slightly different dogs to perform most efficiently - rather than the "a good hound is a good hound anywhere" view that so many seem to have. In fact, if I ever go to the evergreen tangles where hare is the quarry, I will leave my briar dogs at home and see how the hare hounds do it!
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HatterasBob
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
- Location: Maryland
Chuck,
I run harehounds only except one. I have one male that has only been running cottontail since July that will run well in Georgia, Pennsylvania or Canada. I must admit that the transition from hare to cottontail is not easy, but a smart dog will adjust with time. I think where the hare dogs loose on cottontail is in the hunt department. Hare dogs don't have to hunt like cottontail dogs and most don't. I took my only Kentucky bred cottontail hound to Mass to run in a large pack on hare and she did fine for 3 1/2 hours until she ran out of gas. As far as your cover in Georgia, I have never seen anything come close to multifloria rose found in Pennsylvania. If you have multifloria rose the you have rabbits because the fox can't move in it. I garrantee that my hare breed dogs will do fine in any cover you have in Georgia. In fact they may enjoy not having to run in multifloria rose. In fact my hardest hunting dog is a son of Ranger Dan and it don't get any more hare hound then that.
I am not a historian on the evolution of the beagle, but last year at the Canadian Nationals, the Canadians took credit for saving the hunting cottontail dog from extinction in the US with the course of the walkie talkies here. According to them (and I believe them) the fast speed cottontail dog was on the road to extinction and it was the northern hare breeding that was used to resurrect it. So I expect there is alot more hare breeding in our dogs then we know.
I run harehounds only except one. I have one male that has only been running cottontail since July that will run well in Georgia, Pennsylvania or Canada. I must admit that the transition from hare to cottontail is not easy, but a smart dog will adjust with time. I think where the hare dogs loose on cottontail is in the hunt department. Hare dogs don't have to hunt like cottontail dogs and most don't. I took my only Kentucky bred cottontail hound to Mass to run in a large pack on hare and she did fine for 3 1/2 hours until she ran out of gas. As far as your cover in Georgia, I have never seen anything come close to multifloria rose found in Pennsylvania. If you have multifloria rose the you have rabbits because the fox can't move in it. I garrantee that my hare breed dogs will do fine in any cover you have in Georgia. In fact they may enjoy not having to run in multifloria rose. In fact my hardest hunting dog is a son of Ranger Dan and it don't get any more hare hound then that.
I am not a historian on the evolution of the beagle, but last year at the Canadian Nationals, the Canadians took credit for saving the hunting cottontail dog from extinction in the US with the course of the walkie talkies here. According to them (and I believe them) the fast speed cottontail dog was on the road to extinction and it was the northern hare breeding that was used to resurrect it. So I expect there is alot more hare breeding in our dogs then we know.
I guess I'm kinda confused here. So let me ask you guys that run hare a question to clear something up for me. Don't you have cottontails in the same areas as the hare? And if so, won't your dogs run whichever track they come across first? So they would be running both all the time, wouldn't they? No sarcasm here, I really don't know. We only have cottontail where I live.
By the way, I would love to take the male in my avatar somewhere to run some hare, just to see him do it. He's a head up fast style dog when the conditions allow and can really move a cottontail, but they cut and turn a little much for him to really get up to full speed. I'd like to see what he could do on a hare or jack rabbit.
By the way, I would love to take the male in my avatar somewhere to run some hare, just to see him do it. He's a head up fast style dog when the conditions allow and can really move a cottontail, but they cut and turn a little much for him to really get up to full speed. I'd like to see what he could do on a hare or jack rabbit.
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HatterasBob
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
- Location: Maryland
Kjohns,
I'm not a hare hunter, but areas that really have hare don't have cottontails and vise versa. Most hare trialers only run their hounds in pens with only hare. Very few trial dogs run in the wild where they might jump a cottontail. My experience has been that hare dogs do not jump hare but turn a cold track into a hot one. That's why hare dogs often lack hunt, they never had too. The areas that have hare are cedar swamps, not briar patches. This is just my experiences.
I'm not a hare hunter, but areas that really have hare don't have cottontails and vise versa. Most hare trialers only run their hounds in pens with only hare. Very few trial dogs run in the wild where they might jump a cottontail. My experience has been that hare dogs do not jump hare but turn a cold track into a hot one. That's why hare dogs often lack hunt, they never had too. The areas that have hare are cedar swamps, not briar patches. This is just my experiences.
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Chuck Terry
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:26 pm
I agree with you on alot of the things you said. Especially the hounds need for time (experience) to adapt to new terrain and/or quarry. I still think I must have the worst luck in the world to buy two hare hounds from two different litters from a reputable breeder and neither one could run a cottontail satisfactorily. Oh, well!
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HatterasBob
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
- Location: Maryland
Chuck Terry,
Have I got a deal for you. I'll give you a pup from my next litter and all you have to do is pay shipping/pickup of a hare bred beagle that will run a cottontail into the ground. Briars will not be a problem. These parents are my best briar bustin dogs I have. Only two rules, you can't sell the dog (I'll take it back) and you have to tell what you honestly think about this hare bred cottontail dog on this board. I'm confident that it will be free advertising for my cross of hounds. I see you run ARHA PP, this hound will be perfect. The sire is a perfect PP hound (never run yet) and the dam is a bit strong for PP (a true LP) but has placed 2 out of 2 in PP. I have only sold 2 pups from this cross and both are outstanding cottontail dogs at 9 months old. Both owners of these pups want more and their friends too. One of the pups has been described as not having any holes. The cross:
IFC Melansons Ranger Dan
MojaveDesert-KY Sonic Boom
IFC Cool Running Sonic
pups
Branko's jack Tracker (sire IFC Branko's Ali-baba)
MojaveDesert-TrueTrack Sky
Branko's Sunshine
Now that is definitely hare breed! Both dogs are strong 13" and will throw 12-14" hounds.
Are you interested?
email me @ bob.keese@gsa.gov
The breeding will occur in early spring.
Have I got a deal for you. I'll give you a pup from my next litter and all you have to do is pay shipping/pickup of a hare bred beagle that will run a cottontail into the ground. Briars will not be a problem. These parents are my best briar bustin dogs I have. Only two rules, you can't sell the dog (I'll take it back) and you have to tell what you honestly think about this hare bred cottontail dog on this board. I'm confident that it will be free advertising for my cross of hounds. I see you run ARHA PP, this hound will be perfect. The sire is a perfect PP hound (never run yet) and the dam is a bit strong for PP (a true LP) but has placed 2 out of 2 in PP. I have only sold 2 pups from this cross and both are outstanding cottontail dogs at 9 months old. Both owners of these pups want more and their friends too. One of the pups has been described as not having any holes. The cross:
IFC Melansons Ranger Dan
MojaveDesert-KY Sonic Boom
IFC Cool Running Sonic
pups
Branko's jack Tracker (sire IFC Branko's Ali-baba)
MojaveDesert-TrueTrack Sky
Branko's Sunshine
Now that is definitely hare breed! Both dogs are strong 13" and will throw 12-14" hounds.
Are you interested?
email me @ bob.keese@gsa.gov
The breeding will occur in early spring.
Hey guys, 30 years ago my wife and I had a beagle as a pet. We lived in Westboro Mass, where there was a beagle training area run by the state DNR. My uncle had beagles and he talked us into trying our hound out on cottontails when he was 2 years old. He took to it like a duck to water!!! Now my uncle said we got to go to the western part of the state and get him on hares. Man what a difference between the two chases, a hare can take em all over the county in a huge circle. Many times I thought I'd never see him again but my uncle would say calm down this ain't no cottontail we got going here son. One time up in Royalston Ma we had to leave our jackets over night where we parked, the next morning we went back and theres the dogs asleep from an all night run. I remember the years mother nature would screw up the hare cause they'd be white and there would be no snow on the ground!!! We shot lots of hares and it was fun to say the least. I hope the swamp rabbits down here measure up to the northern hare, we'll see soon, my pups are coming along good..
Crew Chief
Crew Chief
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HatterasBob
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
- Location: Maryland
Brad,
Yes I own Boomer. He is the hardest hunting dog I've ever seen. Not real fast, sort of medium speed or a little more (slowest dog I own). Just a real nice dog. Boomer is the sire of VaBeagler's Jerry that he got from me. He can stay down in large pack on hare, but no placements. Boomer place 3rd a few weeks back in a PBGA SPO. That's about right for him. He's never been picked up, but he also didn't make the winners pack in 2 tries at mid-west. If you want to go hunting he is the first dog I would take. You may want to breed to Jerry. He is an 1 1/2" taller then Boomer with more foot speed. Jerry's dam is fast and the second dog I'd take hunting.
Later,
Bob
Yes I own Boomer. He is the hardest hunting dog I've ever seen. Not real fast, sort of medium speed or a little more (slowest dog I own). Just a real nice dog. Boomer is the sire of VaBeagler's Jerry that he got from me. He can stay down in large pack on hare, but no placements. Boomer place 3rd a few weeks back in a PBGA SPO. That's about right for him. He's never been picked up, but he also didn't make the winners pack in 2 tries at mid-west. If you want to go hunting he is the first dog I would take. You may want to breed to Jerry. He is an 1 1/2" taller then Boomer with more foot speed. Jerry's dam is fast and the second dog I'd take hunting.
Later,
Bob
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VABEAGLER
Alright now i'm upset! (lol)
How come you didn't say anything about taking JERRY hunting Bob!
Brad Boomer is a nice hound i have run with him. A little slower than you normally like but he sure makes up for it in other ways. I have to admit he is a great check dog. Breeding your bitch to him wouldn't be a bad move at all.
How come you didn't say anything about taking JERRY hunting Bob!
Brad Boomer is a nice hound i have run with him. A little slower than you normally like but he sure makes up for it in other ways. I have to admit he is a great check dog. Breeding your bitch to him wouldn't be a bad move at all.
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hound sound
I moved here, to Indiana, about 6 months ago. I got a little female beagle out of hare hounds. She does a fine job on cottontails. Not perfect, not the best, but she does a good job. I think a good rabbit dog will make the switch either way. And obviously you will find some real fast dogs or real slow dogs if you're in Alberta or Alabama. In my opinion no one breeds hare dogs or cottontail dogs. You can breed a fast or slow dog, you can breed, lots of different traits, but as far as the game they chase, that's what you choose to use them on, no matter how they're bread. And of course people will have different opinions on what's the best type of breeding to use on different types of rabbits in different geographic area's. In my opinion though a good dog with brains will run rabbits, anywhere. Hey wardog, look me up and we'll go hunting sometime. 665-9406.
dk
dk
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ALSWAMPER
Well, for one, our hounds don't blow holes in the ground and 2, our dogs are no more trashy than the best hare hounds. If you disagree, send me your pups and I'll make Grade A deer dogs out of them.
I've got two 1/2 bred hare hounds and they don't know what a line is. Crossed with all Stubby breeding and the Stubby didn't make them rough.
I've got two 1/2 bred hare hounds and they don't know what a line is. Crossed with all Stubby breeding and the Stubby didn't make them rough.