Little Pack Trophies verse Money

[toldyouso]

wHEATHER IT IS LILLTE pack or PKC UKC or AKC it still comes down to LEADERSHIP if your LEADERSHIP is weak then your organization will be weak. If you as a member of any of these organizations look the other way instead of doing the right thing regardless wheather your dog profis or doesnt profit from the right thing then you too r the problem. I am alot of things from a butthole to very opionity but i have never been a cheater and he who does not trust his fellow houndsman maybe there is a reason. I will yell to someone and tell them to score a line by themself because if hes going to cheat he will do it wheather i am there or not and he has to live with it not me. And thats how i live but thats my perfect world.

[Bad Luck Kennels]

Trophies is super great for the kids. We got to think about the kids because they are going to be the ones that keep this great sport running. That is if we can get them into this. They can go to school and show off thier trophies to thier friends and say (`` look what i won this weekend ``). Just maybe they will want to try that also and get other kids involed. I have ran all formats. AKC,PKC,NKC,and UKC. There are rules in all formats that not everyone likes. I will say the only one that i wont be back to is a PKC h&h. I was only at one hunt and it was a fund raiser for a young man that pass away. I and most of everyone was going to give thier money back to the club that won. They broke it off in me when they used this rule.
RULE NUMBER 8
8. DELETE POINTS
A. When majority of cast decision cannot be reached. Deleted points may not be used in
any way to determine the outcome of a cast (unless ruled by panel).
B. When dog(s) are declared struck with less than three (3) minutes remaining in cast,
hunting time expires, and dogs have not made reasonable forward progress.
C. When time out has been called and dogs were not allowed the full three (3) minutes
to make reasonable forward progress (majority cast decision).
D. Strike points that have not been scored (plus or circle) will be deleted if time-out is
called for any reason. Majority cast decision.

Thier dogs was mouthing off and i think the dogs need to be held accounted for what they do in the field. Not deleteing pionts off the card. So with all of this that i have said. No more money hunts for me. I will stick with AKC,NKC,and UKC.

This is JMO

Greg Hunter

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Frank as for me I still know my place in little pack (at the bottom). Ms Joyce has always bent her back to be helpful in anyway.I would not know Del Morgan if he walked up on me. Ron Eades and Fred has always made me fill comfortable
Even ol I-SEN-HUT Has been there thru it all. I just dont see where much has changed except the level of hounds. I do however think we need the Runoff back. As for leadership i think its Ok.

[wdc11]

AKC what are there rules? From what I've seen at these trials there are none. It's all a matter of opinion. You never know what the judge or judges are looking for in the dogs that day.

[toldyouso]

Jimmy I never said anything bad about Joyce I only Quoted a conversation me and her had at a world hunt I did not know it was a secret lol. As for Fred and Ron that is your right but think about what you just said. If the caliber of dog as went down and you do not think leadership can fix it then WHO. When your leaders look the other way from quality of dogs or well we know that that judge cheats but we have to get the hunt over so we allow him to judge and you know who he is. Then leadership is the problem. When you as a leader threaten another mans life over a sale of a dog. Then you have leadership problems. But ha you dont run NKC no more for a reason and i do not believe its money when your nick name is EASY MONEY LMAO

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

AKC what are there rules? From what I've seen at these trials there are none. It's all a matter of opinion. You never know what the judge or judges are looking for in the dogs that day.

Actually Akc is my personal favorite at least the midwest. Just a little different crowd but ya know rules or not my opinion plays a big favor on any day i judge.

[wdc11]

Nothing wrong with the crowd. I've been to very little AKC trials. Just don't know what kind of hound that I need that day. Like you said OPINION. Ill keep going though. Thank's.

[wvduece]

Never ran PKC myself but here is my following opinion

Money is the root of evil and if people think there is cheating now just add money to the formats and watch what happens, as of now i will stick with running my dogs for the music and chasing the beautiful ribbons!!! JMHO

money isnt the root of evil its the love of money that gets in the way jb

[Parker7]

It don't matter of you give away money or trophies of these organizations would come up with a good honest judging system that would promote a good hound,they would bring all the business. I still say ARHA is the closest to doing that. With some adjustments they could be bigger then they ever were. Their is more guys running beagles then their ever was. Funnel them all together and the world hunt would take all week! But like I said in another post on here, it starts at the top.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Nothing wrong with the crowd. I've been to very little AKC trials. Just don't know what kind of hound that I need that day. Like you said OPINION. Ill keep going though. Thank's.

The easiest way to tell ya is A dog that runs to over take it's game, without the cutting and slashing.

[bigdog]

toldyouso, you talk about leadership in little pack just who do you think can do the job to make it better. IF ron and fred would step aside!

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Just sorta wondering about the PKC versus ARHA, looks like pkc is having 10 entries and Less so guess the Little Pack is still rolling on. Just cause it don't suit everyone looks like the trophies are still on top, heard someone say dog up if your not winning in little pack. Ya may wanna go back and look at past world hunt winners. I don't think in Kentucky we got a dog up Problem
I wish I still had young legs instead of a young heart as I loved to judge as well as many that have posted. Eiether route ya choose to take be it right or left just give ur all, at the end of the day u know ya did ur best.

[fulcount]

I dont believe for a minute that the rules for judges set forth
are "dishonest" I believe they are all meant to come up with the best hound on
a given day
What we have are people that are judging that are not paying attention to the
rules on judging or dont know how to evaluate hound work
In the AKC we have a rule book to go by all judges have to attend a seminar
given by the AKC [ this in no way really qualifies them as a judge ] I n my opinion
looking over many, many hounds good and bad Honesty,and being able to judge OBJECTIVELY
does along with physical ability[Judging is hard work]
as far as Judging on Opinions that is HogWash there should never be judging on OPINION
What a judge likes personally should never be put into the equation,
our rule book even states what faults are throw out faults and which are demerit faults
unfortunately a lot of judges forget about it while judging or really dont know the difference or dont care Experience with hounds is a must when hiring judges just an individual off the street dont work!
A body inthe woods dont make a judge
SO tha next time you get some one to judge your trial make sure they know what they are
doing dont get them because they WiLL judge but Have some knowledge about hounds
we can make all the rules we want but we cant get in a judges head either they are objective or they aren't
Sorry to have rambled on but this is a subject the really bothers me in todays atmosphere

John O

[bigdog]

maple valley, very good post that is why the PKC folded up around my place. plus do u see ARHA having two hunts the same day at the same club.

[warddog]

I dont believe for a minute that the rules for judges set forth
are "dishonest" I believe they are all meant to come up with the best hound on
a given day
What we have are people that are judging that are not paying attention to the
rules on judging or dont know how to evaluate hound work
In the AKC we have a rule book to go by all judges have to attend a seminar
given by the AKC [ this in no way really qualifies them as a judge ] I n my opinion
looking over many, many hounds good and bad Honesty,and being able to judge OBJECTIVELY
does along with physical ability[Judging is hard work]
as far as Judging on Opinions that is HogWash there should never be judging on OPINION
What a judge likes personally should never be put into the equation,
our rule book even states what faults are throw out faults and which are demerit faults
unfortunately a lot of judges forget about it while judging or really dont know the difference or dont care Experience with hounds is a must when hiring judges just an individual off the street dont work!
A body inthe woods dont make a judge
SO tha next time you get some one to judge your trial make sure they know what they are
doing dont get them because they WiLL judge but Have some knowledge about hounds
we can make all the rules we want but we cant get in a judges head either they are objective or they aren't
Sorry to have rambled on but this is a subject the really bothers me in todays atmosphere

John O

I agree 100% and will add that the rules are just as the law. They are clearly defined in the words of the language in which they are written. What happens is that individuals look for ways to add subjectivity to them in lieu of merely sticking with the objectivity as they have been written by their founders. In my 30 years of enforcing the Code of federal regulations I tried to NEVER deviate from the written word and stuck to my principles of being fair BUT firm. I also watched as one deviation from the words as written be they in law, rule, regulation or a simple contract normally prompted other deviations. Fair and firm in my opnion is sticking to the words as written as they are the object of what you are there to judge for to begin with and NOT subject to individual interpretation! An example would be the much debated 15" rule, pretty cut and dried to me as I don't see any prov8isions for accepting 151/8". What I do see is excuses of how they can measure over the standard even though how they are to be measured is also clearly defined as well. If one comes to a registries trial, who by the way is the judge and jury as far as their rules interpretation and enforcement and their dog cannot be set up as described within their rules than that dog does NOT meet their standards for participation. Pretty simple means of stopping all the bickering is to enforce the rules as written 100% of the time without deviation or excuses.