The complete hound

[chapkosbeagles]

It was brought to my attention that the hound I descibe must have to be a 15 inch out because the step 4 takes a 15inch hound to run a rabbit down
On that being said
A 13 inch can catch rabbits they do it by relentless presure on the rabbit running a smooth track with out many mistakes. A 13 inch hound that dose this will run them stiff

[bfoster]

I guarantee any males they produce with the same speed would be just as capable of passing it on. I'm more of a chem/biochem guy so I can't speak as authoritatively as I could in the Ivomec dosing thread, but I can't see any way that this could be true.

I posted that link to “horsesonly.com” more to show you that genetics is more complex then you realize. It could be true, but we just don’t understand why. No need to justify yourself or go into great detail on it. The X-Factor in horses has no direct correlation to dogs much less beagles. The point was and is that the genetic mutation within Eclipes changed horse racing forever. It only took them a couple hundred years and untold amounts of money to realize it. Even specialist couldn’t explain it and other specialist wouldn’t believe it after they could. Do you think they knew how genetics work when they argued over it?

What can we as Beagle breeders learn from the X-Factor found in horses?

Could there be a genetic mutation found within some beagle lines that could make the dam more important than the sire with regard to certain traits? That’s something to simply say Hmmmm over.

Chapkosbeagles, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

PS

(you don't have a mini person on them urging them to go faster)

Now that’s funny right there! Would give a whole new meaning to dog jockey wouldn’t it, lol.

[chapkosbeagles]

I just couldent find a saddle that would fit ace

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Pretty soon we will have an answer to all of these tantalizing questions about genetics. It wasn't very long ago that scientists figured out size of all dogs were linked to chromosome 15 and more specifically just a few genetic sequences within that chromosome 15 individual sequences out pf 30 million I think..

We have the technology now to figure out exactly why some dogs are slow and some are fast. We can isolate any gene at all within a k9 genome but there is just a few problems. Within the next 15 years household computers should be able to handle most of the technology needed to genetic mark anything your heart could desire.

But first,

1. Someone has to WANT to figure it out scientifically and dedicate a good part of their life studying it. Right now, not a lot of people are offering grants at at schools or Bio labs to study Beagle speed genetic markers.

2. You need a super-fast computer that can statistically analyze the data and not take decades to go through billions of base pairs.. Right now all the best computers in biology are being used for disease research and things that people care more about than beagle speed.

3. You need people to volunteer to donate DNA from traditional brace lines and the super fast, run to overtake dogs.. A good sample size would probably be about ten dogs from each group preferebly all heavily related in a pedigree.

Don't really know why I posted all that, just sayin I guess.... I may have my Advanced Biology class call some vet schools and find out what we would need to do in order to look at something like this for a project..

[chapkosbeagles]

I enjoyed reading it as these are the things I learned in biology as far as genetics

[gwyoung]

Now I have a question, and it is not meant to offend. Does anyone think their Biology Teacher has it all figured out and can therefore, breed better beagles? I have a feeling there are actual breeders that know a lot more about how genetics work than do Biology teachers. This includes the breeders of Horses and such as well as the breeders of dogs. How some think things should work compared to how they actually do constitutes a big difference. I personally don't believe there is a Biology teacher on the planet who understands how genetics work ( at least in Beagles and probably other animals as well) better that The Likes of the Krpans, Or what George Nixon understood. These people proved their theories time and time again.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Now I have a question, and it is not meant to offend. Does anyone think their Biology Teacher has it all figured out and can therefore, breed better beagles? I have a feeling there are actual breeders that know a lot more about how genetics work than do Biology teachers. This includes the breeders of Horses and such as well as the breeders of dogs. How some think things should work compared to how they actually do constitutes a big difference. I personally don't believe there is a Biology teacher on the planet who understands how genetics work ( at least in Beagles and probably other animals as well) better that The Likes of the Krpans, Or what George Nixon understood. These people proved their theories time and time again.

Since your obviously talking about me, let me respond to that one... I never one time said I was breeding or attempting to breed ANYTHING for anyone.. Nothing, not one dog. I have had one litter of pups because they suited me. I simply made the CORRECT statement that genetically we can actually isolate the genes that control speed.. That is a fact. Its not hard to do and its being done in very real ways all across the world in multiple situations.. I think you are HIGHLY under estimating what biologists know.. (not me specifically but in general)

Who created artificial insemination that allows semen to be frozen for later generations? Biologists.. Who creates vaccines for crippling diseases from lepto to parvo? Biologists.. Who creates new worming medicines and keeps dogs healthy living longer? Biologists... Who makes the dog food that keeps dogs coats shinny and running well all throughout the winter?

With all due respect the people who bred beagles over the years obviously knew what they were doing and what they wanted out of their hounds and bred/culled to do it but if you gave those same folks the technology we have now and let them know what we know now about how genetics work, I think you would be astounded at the dogs we would have now without them having to kill up to 70 percent of their dogs to get the results.

With beliefs like these its honestly no wonder why we rank 32nd in math and science in the world. I am not saying biologists are the answer for everything beagles but trying to compare guys taking random chance breeding to get desired traits and comparing them to what modern biologists could do if they chose to, it is ridiculous... Its not even up for debate.. That fact that humans even live longer than 40 years old to breed beagles for decades is because of biologists and chemists..

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, I wasn't talking about you. Not sure how you decided I was. But anyhow it wasn't an " unfriendly" question It was a fair question aimed at all, And I don't mind repeating it with clarification for some of us ( Now I am referring to you!) Does anyone think their Biology teacher knows more about breeding beagles then the greats that have actually bred them? Once again not an unfriendly question.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Mo Beagler, I wasn't talking about you. Not sure how you decided I was. But anyhow it wasn't an " unfriendly" question It was a fair question aimed at all, And I don't mind repeating it with clarification for some of us ( Now I am referring to you!) Does anyone think their Biology teacher knows more about breeding beagles then the greats that have actually bred them? Once again not an unfriendly question. oh, yea, who has bred the most successful beagles in history, was that Biologists also, I don't think so.

It was probably because i mentioned giving my biology students a project and then the very next post was a question about biology teachers. Frame it however you want but it sure looked like you were referring to me pretty specifically.. Don't really know how anyone could think otherwise especially since you had to qualify it with "this is not meant to offend" who did you think was going to be offended?? I wasn't offended at all either by the way. I am pretty used to defending science..

And i will respond to you question again...(in a friendly manner) I EMPHATICALLY believe that biologists (especially evolutionary, genetic biologists and veterinarians) know more about breeding animals for specific traits than all but the most serious breeders. And I would bet that most of them are pretty familiar with the general idea even without formal training. Thats why so many hardcore beaglers line breed and follow pedigrees. Biologists normally start with something they see happening in real life and then improve it in the laboratory.

I think your confusing what they COULD do with what they ARE doing. Most biologists and even vets are not really concerned with bettering the breed of beagles specifically but their research into DNA medicine and genetics has a PROFOUND influence on our hounds.. The possibility of cloning and selecting desired traits from inside the womb is literally right on the horizon and science will continue to be the driving force in the 21st century in all aspects of life for beagles, humans, cows and trees..

I suppose I would even make the case that all the great beaglers before us WERE quasi biologists even if they didn't understand DNA...

[gwyoung]

mo Beagler, Go back and see what everyone else is aware of, The very next post after your's was not mine as you incorrectly state. look at it again. furthermore you were not the only one who mentioned Biology. look at that again. No apology necessary, just try to get the facts straight will be apology enough. Now to get to the heart of the matter I simply asked if anyone thought their Biology teachers were capable of breeding better beagles than the greats who have done it. Simple question for all, if you think yes than say yes if you think no than say no. This is all it means, you do not have to attack the question, or even answer for that matter. I can't make it any more simple than that!

[littlewoody]

What you learn in a book and what you learn in life is a big different .

[S.R.Patch]

Seems like what your after is refered to as "nose speed", the time neccessary to take in scent and be processed by the brain for forward progress of unraveling a line.
Some hounds do it quicker than others naturally and others are slower to progress(be sure of themselves) than others. Then you have those at each extreem of the spectrum that over-run their ability and others, those that potter along wasting valuable time.
Nose speed gives a smart hound not one speed, but many speeds as they adjust to a failing fading scent.
So hurry along now young lads, scent or time waits for no one.

[fjg2]

SR Patch hit the nail right on the head !! well done!

[chapkosbeagles]

Nose speed
The ability to run when others cant

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, I am sorry, but I forgot to answer what you pose in your last paragraph. You say I am confused and that I am mistaken "Could' with "Are". Go back and look at the question again. I did not ask if they are doing it at all . ( for someone who " defends science you sure have trouble with comprehension) I asked if they " knew" how, I asked if they were " capable" . This sounds like " could" and not " are" doesn't it. It was a fair question , and I am sorry you did not understand it. Now, since you are a Biology teacher, ( yes, this is a question for you since you wanted to jump in.) do you think Biology teachers know more about breeding hounds than the average person who has bred several champions in the field under many different registries, including some who have even bred world champions. And if so what is your evidence for it? Have you bred any hounds , being a Biology teacher How did they work out for You, lot of Champions? And you say the Geneticists, Biologists, and Vets do not know more than the " serious ' breeders How come? and how would you characterize a " serious" breeder. Just curious. Once again thanks for jumping in and showing the willingness to answer questions!