Bev is right

[S.R.Patch]

I'm not full of hate, Patch. I just refused to be abused, and I don't want others abused, either. And most importantly, I'm tired of taking your thinly-veiled jabs and insults. Been taking them for years. At least I come at you in the open. I've learned that life's too short to play mouse to your cat, so if you have nothing kind to say to or about me, then by all means, get on outta here.

Likewise, I wish you a long and healthy life.

I'm not full of hate, Patch. I just refused to be abused, and I don't want others abused, either. And most importantly, I'm tired of taking your thinly-veiled jabs and insults. Been taking them for years. At least I come at you in the open. I've learned that life's too short to play mouse to your cat, so if you have nothing kind to say to or about me, then by all means, get on outta here.

Likewise, I wish you a long and healthy life.

That's why I backed out of this, "you" weren't being abused, but started to try and drag me into a "one-on-one" pissing match, making this about me and you when originally it was about a 15yo girl and her posting style and mannerism.
I don't want to fight with you, but you've got it in your head thats what I'm about, so you create these "attacks" out of discussion where we differ.

I think your key is a bit flat on this one, Patch. If you had been the target of her vitriol, we would have been seeing some old-time grandpa adages about switch-cutting, and cryptic messages about time/space travel like, "clean into next Sunday."

Who was the target of her "vitriol" and what was said? and as always the knife comes out.
Personally, I think if her hounds would have had the correct "name tag" on them, this wouldn't have been such a issue...

Funny you consider insisting on decent behavior as "wing clipping." LOL. Keep at it, Charles. One of these days you may actually come up with a legitimate reason to disparage everything I say and do, instead of jumping into the middle of non-events to play dissident. Until then I guess you'll continue to live by the old motto, "Find something you do well and stick to it."

Sorry for the mis-communication, when we were boys, getting out of line correction was always referred to as "getting yur wings clipped", don't know what you call it. again, duck the knife.
Again, I don't really care what you do, it's your board. But this thread was giving opinion of approval and I felt at liberty to discuss some of the changes of what kids do and say today that rubs us older folks wrong but seems normal to them as we are all a product of our environment. A fellow comes on here showing a picture of his daughter cleaning a deer, we all think that's just great, but oddly, most teenagers would have a different opinion of her actions.

I look at kids like pups, some are over-excitable, some me-too or mouthy. You try to handle each as individuals to bring out the best in them. All I wanted to do was give this one a chance without breaking her spirit, just as you would a hopeful prospect (glass 1/2 full)...
I can only take credit for raising two children, neither gave us a days trouble, both were valedictorians of their classes, one is a computer engineer and the other is a 4th grade school teacher. I've helped troubled kids at church camps an other than that, it's all the experience I've had with kids but I've found each is special in their own way, you just have to look for it.(all puppies want to make you proud) jmho
Best wishes...

[bucks better beagles]

S.R.Patch said: "A fellow comes on here showing a picture of his daughter cleaning a deer, we all think that's just great, but oddly, most teenagers would have a different opinion of her actions".

I thought that was a little strange myself but, being as I am an inter-net coward, I try to watch what I say for fear of being banned from this site that I love very much. I also find it strange that capital punishment towards children would be condoned and encouraged. I think there are much better ways to guide a child then using a belt or stick. Perhaps if the adults among us, used proper spelling, showed proper respect, and voiced our opinions in proper way, the non-adults would learn and follow suit.

[toldyouso]

Very true but i will disagree on one thing u said I do believe in spanking a child not BEATING but spanking a child and i have yet to meet one that does not deserve a spanking from time to time.

[hookset]

S.R., Buck,

I'd like to know what was 'stange' about it. My wife, not daughter, was cleaning a deer. I'm proud that she enjoys the outdoors with me. She runs hounds, deer hunts, and goes fishing with me. She can clean her own deer and not rely on me or a meat packing plant to do it for her. I'll teach my daughters the same thing when they're old enough so that they can become self-sufficient and enjoy the outdoors also. Should I leave them indoors watching TV or drop them off at the mall instead?

[Bev]

Charles, I knew you couldn't stay away.

As usual, you are trying to deflect. What other teenagers think is normal is irrelevent and not the issue here. The issue here is the behavior towards others of this particular teenager on this board. Try to focus on why the disciplinary actions were taken. She was actually warned first.

However, a picture of someone's (wife or) daughter cleaning a deer, and someone's daughter repeatedly telling the members here that they are "crybabies and make her sick," and basically for them to "shove it" aren't even in the same league.

As for the rest of your post? Sour grapes.

bucks better beagles, I'm absolutely dumbfounded that you of all people would even weigh in on this. I'm ordering you a wheelbarrow to help you carry them. How tall are you?

[Norshore]

I thought that was a little strange myself but, being as I am an inter-net coward, I try to watch what I say for fear of being banned from this site that I love very much. I also find it strange that capital punishment towards children would be condoned and encouraged. I think there are much better ways to guide a child then using a belt or stick. Perhaps if the adults among us, used proper spelling, showed proper respect, and voiced our opinions in proper way, the non-adults would learn and follow suit.

I don't remember anyone that felt it warranted capital punishment. Corporal maybe, capital is a little harsh for being a smart-aleck kid.

[Bev]

Actually, nobody that I'm aware of even suggested such for her. All I read was accounts from people saying what THEIR parents would have done, or what THEY would have gotten, had they acted that way.

[S.R.Patch]

S.R., Buck,

I'd like to know what was 'stange' about it. My wife, not daughter, was cleaning a deer. I'm proud that she enjoys the outdoors with me. She runs hounds, deer hunts, and goes fishing with me. She can clean her own deer and not rely on me or a meat packing plant to do it for her. I'll teach my daughters the same thing when they're old enough so that they can become self-sufficient and enjoy the outdoors also. Should I leave them indoors watching TV or drop them off at the mall instead?

There's nothing strange about it to me, my point was, other teenagers might wrinkle their nose or think it was "gross". Remember, I have a daughter also and it took me the longest time to get her to put a worm on a hook...
I think what your doing is great, I often tell my wife on some of the chores she comes up with, "what would you do if I weren't here", hoping she'll jump in an take the lead sometimes ...
What I was trying to say was, sometimes our generation gaps also have language barriers. I remember when it became "cool" for the kids to say, "shut-up", meaning they didn't believe what you were saying or another method of saying "no-way". I cut my daughter off at the knees the first time I heard her say that phrase and told her," it may be the cool thing to say but not coming from your mouth and I won't hear of it". It bothers me yet today and I even hear grown-ups say it.

Bev,
I don't have the cartilage to do knee bends to ask your forgiveness, you'll have to believe what you want. I didn't say I was leaving, but thought it best to step back and take a breath before emotion overtook sensibility.
I felt Katelyn reply about the "cry babies and making her sick" was a reflex to the comments made to her from the doubting Thomas crowd, kind of the dog biting back once feeling bitten.
If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time. I've had the taste of crow in my mouth a time or two, since speaking up in defense of mybeagles...

You know Buck, I kept my father belt limber for him many time and looking back I had them coming. The only time I felt he was wrong was when he used a limb, I had cuts on my legs that bled. I could take a whipping but cutting me up was the only time I ever said to myself, " I hated him". I could never hate my father but making me bleed like that, was where I felt his anger overrode his justice.
I hope no one takes what's said on a beagle board like a cut to the flesh. or maybe it's just me trying to "deflect"...
Life's a dance, enjoy the music...

[hookset]

I remember when it became "cool" for the kids to say, "shut-up", meaning they didn't believe what you were saying or another method of saying "no-way".

I don't think using the F-word is the same equivalent to 'shut-up'. Katelyn was fond of telling everybody that they were 'stupid AF'. Which is Facebook shorthand for 'stupid AS F***'. She was also fond of going off the deep end with the insults and language, then editing or deleting her post to make the responses look like an overreaction. Adults are not allowed to use the language she used. Being 15 years old is not an affirmative defense.

[bucks better beagles]

Bev: You won't need much of a wheelbarrow. Since my last operation, more like a drip bucket is needed. On the belt and switch issue, trust me, I got them used many times when I was a kid. I just don't feel it is the best form of punishment or corrective action. I raised 4 kids to be successful adults and never had to use "corporal" (not capital) punishment. As for Katelyn, she really loves her dog. I guess I didn't read all the distasteful things she said. I enjoy it when young people get involved with their beagles. I would hope we could find some way to integrate her into proper ethical forum standards. I think she has a lot to say.

[drifter22no1]

I remember when it became "cool" for the kids to say, "shut-up", meaning they didn't believe what you were saying or another method of saying "no-way".

I don't think using the F-word is the same equivalent to 'shut-up'. Katelyn was fond of telling everybody that they were 'stupid AF'. Which is Facebook shorthand for 'stupid AS F***'. She was also fond of going off the deep end with the insults and language, then editing or deleting her post to make the responses look like an overreaction. Adults are not allowed to use the language she used. Being 15 years old is not an affirmative defense.

Hookset,

You are 100% correct, that was exactly what was happening. Nobody wants their children and/or grandchildren involved in this sport more than I do. At the same time I also want them to present themselves with as much respect (win, lose, or draw) as they expect others to show them. I think/hope I have gone out of my way teaching my grand-daughter to show respect to both the judges and other hounds men at trials. I think that anyone that knows me will attest to that. One of the biggest lessons that we have to teach our young ones is how to lose. Let’s face it, winning is easy but winning with grace is not as easy sometimes. Losing on the other hand is not nearly as easy but we all know that losing in this sport is inevitable.

I was very happy to see Katelyn excited about her dog and rightfully so. But............. she has to learn to win and lose with all grace and humility, I know it is not easy and there are many grown-ups that need to learn the same lesson and some of them never will but that doesn't mean they shouldn't.

I hope Katelyn finishes her dog; it would appear that he has all the necessary tools to do so, but I also hope Katlyn learns to conduct herself in a more sportsman/sportswoman like manner.

I would say that many did not know that Katelyn was making posts and then changing them as if she was being harassed for no reason. For this reason many times it would be better if we just keep out mouth shut when Bev makes a move, I have noticed that most of the time when Bev steps in, it is necessary and the only ones that usually have a problem with it are the busy bodies that should just keep their mouths closed and just listen or read in this case.

But it takes all kinds, you know how that is.

Oh and as far as punishment goes, well that would be for her parents to decide, well, that is if they even know what she has been up to, that is. How we all raised our kids is not even relevant in this issue.

How Bev handled it I feel was DEAD SPOT ON.

[hookset]

Drifter - right on man!

My oldest daughter is 6 years old. This year, she went deer hunting for the first time. She handled a dog at a field trial for the first time. She's done a lot for the first time. But - I'll guarantee that the first time she tells someone that they're 'stupid AF', it will be an event that I will personally make sure she remembers the rest of her days. Respect is something very few parents try to teach their children anymore. I may or may not teach my children correctly, but I'm going to give it my best.

[Ohiohntr]

I think the funniest thing I have ever heard was the mystery of the "stolen password". I found out what I already knew a short time later that it was fabricated to try and bail herself out of the first mess she created. Unfortunately, KK was not able to take the advice a good many houndsman were giving her and well....mom took her keyboard away. Running around calling people "a smarta**"...well, that is just not good pr work for yourself...especially when you do not know them, nor do they know you...sentences and word context can be a very tricky thing....laughter on one end could spell anger on the other end.

I have two young daughters and a couple situations came up just last night that made me think of you Patch.

The first was when my oldest put her knee square into the backside of my youngest with full force (this is apparently called "corn-dogging ). Anyhow, she was promplty told that if her knee was to ever touch someones backside again then the game would be over because she would need her other knee to stand on. I got the old "everyone at school does it...it is funny"....I told her the warning stands and I will be checking with adults at the school to make sure it NEVER happens. I made her write a note to take with her this morning to give to her teacher saying as such....She got the point and was explained how disrespectful that is to do to someone (although no-doubt her sister probably deserved it ).

The other one was when I saw she had written something on her pants....again, the old "everyone at school writes on their clothes". She got another warning that if I find so much as a drop of ink on any of her clothes then they would all be taken away and I will personally drain her savings account and piggy bank to buy her new clothes and take her old clothes and donate them to kids who are less fortunate but appriciate things so much more. She spent over an hour last night scrubbing the ink out of her pants and she is now only allowed to use crayons and pencils (she is 10) until I feel the problem has been resolved....ya, I'm sure she was embarrassed today at school...good!!! Ruining items of value is disrespectful to the person who bought the items.

I see it with my own girls...The respect for items, adults, authority...etc...is just about gone. I try my darndest to keep things straight and teach them right from wrong but the influences to act up are strong. I have no doubt KK is excited about her dog, absolutely no doubt...However, I believe there is a point where an adult has to step in and say enough is enough when a child is being disrespectful. Did what my daughter did in either of the examples hurt anybody? Nope...in my eyes, it just isn't correct behavior. There are imaginarly floating lines that even as adults we sometimes cross but we all have to play by rules wherever we go even though we may not like the rules.

When you go to someone elses house the proper thing to do is take your shoes off at the door without asking them if you have to.

[drifter22no1]

Drifter - right on man!

My oldest daughter is 6 years old. This year, she went deer hunting for the first time. She handled a dog at a field trial for the first time. She's done a lot for the first time. But - I'll guarantee that the first time she tells someone that they're 'stupid AF', it will be an event that I will personally make sure she remembers the rest of her days. Respect is something very few parents try to teach their children anymore. I may or may not teach my children correctly, but I'm going to give it my best.

[drifter22no1]

I think the funniest thing I have ever heard was the mystery of the "stolen password". I found out what I already knew a short time later that it was fabricated to try and bail herself out of the first mess she created. Unfortunately, KK was not able to take the advice a good many houndsman were giving her and well....mom took her keyboard away. Running around calling people "a smarta**"...well, that is just not good pr work for yourself...especially when you do not know them, nor do they know you...sentences and word context can be a very tricky thing....laughter on one end could spell anger on the other end.

I have two young daughters and a couple situations came up just last night that made me think of you Patch.

The first was when my oldest put her knee square into the backside of my youngest with full force (this is apparently called "corn-dogging ). Anyhow, she was promplty told that if her knee was to ever touch someones backside again then the game would be over because she would need her other knee to stand on. I got the old "everyone at school does it...it is funny"....I told her the warning stands and I will be checking with adults at the school to make sure it NEVER happens. I made her write a note to take with her this morning to give to her teacher saying as such....She got the point and was explained how disrespectful that is to do to someone (although no-doubt her sister probably deserved it ).

The other one was when I saw she had written something on her pants....again, the old "everyone at school writes on their clothes". She got another warning that if I find so much as a drop of ink on any of her clothes then they would all be taken away and I will personally drain her savings account and piggy bank to buy her new clothes and take her old clothes and donate them to kids who are less fortunate but appriciate things so much more. She spent over an hour last night scrubbing the ink out of her pants and she is now only allowed to use crayons and pencils (she is 10) until I feel the problem has been resolved....ya, I'm sure she was embarrassed today at school...good!!! Ruining items of value is disrespectful to the person who bought the items.

I see it with my own girls...The respect for items, adults, authority...etc...is just about gone. I try my darndest to keep things straight and teach them right from wrong but the influences to act up are strong. I have no doubt KK is excited about her dog, absolutely no doubt...However, I believe there is a point where an adult has to step in and say enough is enough when a child is being disrespectful. Did what my daughter did in either of the examples hurt anybody? Nope...in my eyes, it just isn't correct behavior. There are imaginarly floating lines that even as adults we sometimes cross but we all have to play by rules wherever we go even though we may not like the rules.

When you go to someone elses house the proper thing to do is take your shoes off at the door without asking them if you have to.