why cant grown men just be honest

[Bev]

This board is good for listing dogs, doing initial screening (based on pedigree questions, size, etc.) and for communication in making a personal appointment to go see the dog run. It's invaluable for those things. But, nothing can take the place of seeing for yourself. I've sold very few dogs, I usually give them to people I trust, but even when I do that, I give a reasonable trial basis. If the new owner gets back to me and says he's satisfied, I send the papers. If he's not satisfied, then bring the dog back and the papers don't have to be redone. The goal for me is to find a good match for dog and owner.

In the past if it was a dog sold out of our kennel, it was a trial basis, too, but with the understanding that if the dog comes back, it's in the same good health/condition as it was when it left, and if anything happens to the dog, they've bought it. Money and papers didn't exchange hands until everyone was satisfied. Never had any trouble.

Bought a dog from a fellow in Michigan that didn't work out. He told me the dog was skittish, had run deer, but he had corrected her on them. He admitted to having a hard time catching her; she didn't handle well at all. But ohhhhh, I HAD to have her because she was the pedigree and looks and size and age of what I wanted. Ha! I couldn't even catch her in the kennel, lol. Now get this; I gave her to a man down south with the information I had about her. He kept her for a while, but couldn't do anything with her, either. Unbeknownst to me, he contacted the fellow in Michigan who was good enough to not only take the dog back, but refund the original purchase price! He wanted it made right, period. I want to add that the man in Michigan also got the dog shy -- she didn't get shy in his kennel. She came as a "buy-one get this one too" kind of deal for him.

I will not name names because the person still posts here and I don't want to get a poo-flinging war started, but I wanted to tell another side -- how somebody after being given the facts, still made a bad choice, and the seller was kind enough to not make her (me) live with that decision. Not everybody's a crook, and there are generally two sides to every story.

[tinymwoods]

I like that post Bev. This was the question I was going to ask. If you sell a dog and tell everything you know on him, and the buyer agrees you were truthful, but he is still not happy, what do you do? Do you say well, I told you so, or do you just say well you knew what you got but I will take it back anyways. I have never sold a dog that suited me. That's not to say I have not sold a couple good dogs. I sold one female that was too slow for me to a guy with a trial (did not list the trial, just try her here but he was running late and quite a spell away) and he is still happy with her as far as I know. She has even done well in AKC trials, but was too slow and small for Little Pack. I sold a male that the guy didn't like because he did not kennel well with another male. I do not kennel my dogs together and I believe it was the dog he already had that was aggressive. I didn't take this dog back. He was as advertised and the guy had no harsh words for me (as far as I know) as I was honest.

If you tell a guy a dog cold trails and he wants his money back because the dog cold trailed on him, is this fair or is the buyer guilty of being unfair?

[bucks better beagles]

I just can't understand all the "buying and crying" that goes on on this board. Like anyone else who has been in the business a long time, I have bought a lot of dogs that I probably should not have bought. However, if the man told me their faults and I asked all the proper questions and he gave me a week's trial and I agreed to it, that is my dog. Period. If I buy a dog and I gun hunt, the first thing I do is shoot around it. Period. If I buy a dog and it is supposed to be deer broke, I put it on deer. Period. A week is enough to trial a dog. I don't think we should go around trashing people because we do not do our homework. JMO

Bob

[Bunnyblaster]

I have to jump back on the band wagon again and say sorry kenneth, you got took and yes it IS your fault. I live in the same state as you and ran in the same conditions you are talking about and I found the time to get my dogs out and pull the trigger a few times..............and yes the conditions SUCKED! I've been there and done that and yes when I got screwed boy was I mad BUT the difference with me is I didn't lay all the blame on the crook, I took my share of the blame too. He may not be a man of his word but you made about as many wrong decisions as you could have. And I do have to say sorry if you waited a year to really "try" the dog out then that ain't fair either.

Now all that being said it is a real shame that there are people out there that choose to be dishonest and it is also a shame that we all have to be so careful about our dealings. I'm like you kenneth and like to take people at their word, which I still do quite a bit to this day. BUT, if you choose to be that way then you HAVE to be ready to take a screwing from time to time...............right or wrong it's gonna happen. Again, I do feel bad for what happened but you need to man up and take ownership of the mistakes you made in this deal too. You messed up a little.........it happens...........move on............and be more careful in the future.

[warddog]

Bev's post is exactly what I'm talking about. In the case she cited all involved were open, honest people with nothing hidden behind what was or wasn't said. The owner of the dog knew what they had and the others involved tried to take it off his hands but it didn't work out so he got the same dog back as he began with. Looks to me like that was an honest deal from the get-go which they all should be. If someone tells the FACTS of a case then that is not whining it's merely relaying what happened. The judgement of the facts then become subjective. My replies to this post were to address honesty as that's what the heading states, "why can't grown men just be honest" and as in Bev's reply it takes honesty and integrity from ALL parties involved in a deal. It can and does happen but it's getting harder and harder everyday to put that faith in people. I'll also say one other thing that this board is good for as it allows me to read the replies from others and in that allows me to make my judgement about dealing with them. From my time on these boards I've learned who I can trust and who I steer away from so I often just look at who made the post then read from those I put faith in first.

[blckcrk-dog]

what I said

most of us down south call this a tail light warranty ,lets face it if its for sale its got a fault if you buy it without trying it you got a fault,if he wont let you try before you buy its got a fault,try it you like it buy it,try it you dont like it deny it ,simple procedure this is not rocket science if you get burnt its your fault as much as the sellers this is what is wrong with things today blame your mistake on someone else so you can feel better about getting screwed because you did not check things out good enough ,would you buy a car without driving it?did you marry your spouse without knowing them?suck it up and move on.would you sell your good dog ?no you wouldnt Ive been burnt by the best and the worst whos fault ? my fault I left my mule where it could be stole.

[Alabama John]

All this is why I don't like to sell a dog.

Its a hastle to deal with a lot of people and impossible to put the right owner with the dog that is just exactly what he had in mind and lots of the time the buyer doesn't even know what he wants so its impossible to match them up.

Never talk to match a dog with a man, dog won't change from what it is, spend all you talking trying to match the right man with the dog is my advice.

I had a dog for sale and a nice man called me from New Jersey and wanted to buy him. I told him nicely this dog had never been north, seldon ever seen snow, stood and shook his feet in the air to get it off him when he had to go out to pee and sure had never hunted in it. Heck he probably couldn't understand a word they were saying way up there either.

I like everyone else want to get more for my money, especially in these hard times. Lots of dog traders are overloaded and selling cheap due to the economy. Many will be practically giving them away in two months once hunting season is over and they are looking at 9 months of $24.00 a 50 lb sack of feed.

[Ron Conroe]

you are right on the mark alabama john, the market is flooded with dogs it's getting harder and harder to sell a dog, hec up here in mi you can hardly give one away. everybody wants one for nothing.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Had a fella wanting to bred to junie last weekend, i insisted that he see him run and bring the best he had......After 1 hour on the phone we had a plan. Tempature in kentucky saturday morning 11 degrees and snowing.We met in lexing ton and drove to shelby co to met bobby vest, bobby commented probaly would of liked this fella if it was not 10 degrees, he asked if junie could jump rabbits in this stuff.I reply if ur dogs can so can mine .....Let out ,his bitch jumped the first and the next 4 hours we had quality running.As we stood there listening we really could not believe it.Well anyway i may have a hard time and be ruff with my points at times but i will never lie to make profit on my stuff.It is what it is.Will he bred to me, who cares we had a good morning took him to the moose lodge ate a fish sandwich and drink a few beers and laughed a little.Thats what its all about.Dont bullshit people it will always come back. Another point i would like to make should a guy not run his stud for ya, then me personally i would run from him.

[kennethgreene]

I have read all these posts and have mulled it over in my head for the last week, And some things that you all have said burns a little, but is probably mostly true. I still beleieve that when two men shake their hands and agree on something, they should be able to take it to the bank. But unfortunately in this world their are mostly cheats and liars. And if this has taught me anything, it is you cant trust anyone. Period. I wasnt asking for the world, i just wanted a decent rabbit dog for the money, (in this case, for the trade) Now i have a dog that looks great but runs everything under the sun Rabbits? Sure, and deer and squirrels and you name it. And on top of all that is gun shy to boot. Tim Waller, from Branch County Michigan. I traded you a above average rabbit dog Run And Gun Rowdy. That i purchased from Eddie Taylor who was everything, Eddie said he was. The only reason you got his dog is i felt sorry for your son, who fell in love with my Rowdy dog, And i took your word that Blue Billy was everything you said he was. The last conversation i had with you, i called you a liar and a cheat. That is exactly what you are, you have taught me never to trust another person again. I will never forgive you for what you have done.

[Tim H]

I have read all these posts and have mulled it over in my head for the last week, And some things that you all have said burns a little, but is probably mostly true.

I believe the rest of your post shows you still have some learning ahead of you.

[lee ga]

Recently I have been seeking information on a particular stud that is owned by a well known breeder/houndsman. Everyone speaks highly of him. When I asked about the hounds strengths, he didn't hesitate to tell me everything about the hound. When I asked him if the hound had faults or something that he didn't like about the hound; his answer was yes, but he wouldn't tell me what they were because he didn't want to bad mouth his hound. He seemed fairly honest, but wouldn't give up all the info. This is what frustrates me. Heck of a nice guy and everyone speaks highly of him and his hound, and odds are I would have used the stud if his faults didn't match my female's faults, but all I can do is walk away. Bummer!

[Bunnyblaster]

It's good that you could do that because a lot of times we let our desires take over our common sense. Knowing when to walk away is one thing................being able to do it is another.

[da ridgetop]

I bought a dog in the mid 90's when i was first getting interested in rabbit hunting from a older fella i new pretty good and i asked him if the dog would run he said she would boy was i excited took her out the next day and she would run alright she started running when i set her off the tailgate and she was still running when i put her up nose never left the ground she barked 50 times every time she picked a foot up and to look at her you would think she was followig scent man was i po'd went to see the guy the next day and told him she wouldn't run rabbits and he said you didn't ask if she would run rabbits you asked if she would run, she runs don't she? he didn't feel bad at all even laughed about it. I DIDN'T LAUGH THAT DAY but after a few days i laughed about it to - moral to this story not everybody trades the same way i think if your going to trade or buy you should run a hound and make sure it suits you or your purpose if your selling be honest tell strong points and faults and let the buyer decide if it suits them or not one mans junk is another mans treasure Donald

[Tim H]

I never get a dog based on another mans word. Why? Because his word may be good but his eyes might be bad.

If I watch the dog run and do my part, I can never feel bad about anything other than my own judgment. If I don't watch the dog run and don't do my part, I can still never feel bad about anything other than my own judgement.

I have yet to meet another man who I would trust to pick what dogs I should live with. I'm the only man that can make that decision and if I let someone else do it for me then I'll just have to live with it.