Jumpdogs

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:00 am

Well, to keep confusion stirred up, I'll have to disagree and say, most of my better and best jumpdawgs were made(well, maybe I shouldn't say made, but most fully developed) while the cycle was low and rabbits were hard to come by. Maybe it added to their "slower to start" habbit, but it made jumpers and stickers out of them.
Hounds are easily spoiled if we raise them as we do our children. The worth of accomplishment by trying hard, is realized by hounds as well as humans, but also dulled, if freely handed to or in excess...

Plowboy · Post by **Plowboy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:32 am

I agree, when rabbits get hard to find the intensity level goes up for the jump & some will excel & others will not.

There are environments that will also make or un-make a "jumpdawg"
I have a buddy who runs 99% of the year at night, he has plenty of rabbits & keeps his dogs tough, but rabbits are always stirring when he cast & the dogs just fall right on them without much effort.
Now come gun season, they are lost when forced to bring up one from the "sitting tight" position & spend their time running paths & checking for hot trails.
I think some hounds are born with the skills , but certain hunting methods can enhance or supress them.
Plowboy

gus · Post by **gus** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:22 am

Patch, I am going to give you an opportunity to test your theory. I have a littermate to
IFC, FC, CHB, GHBCH, GRCH, CH, BCH - BB Backtrack Doctor P that has been disappointing in her jumping ability. She is A-1 in all other requirements. I'll send her up and let you work your magic.

Plowboy I have four pups, six months old that hunt as you describe. They keep their nose to the ground looking for tracks. I usually take them out, due to the heat, early evenings where the cottontails are feeding. They have learned quickly that rabbit tracks lead to bunnies. It will be interesting to see how soon they learn they must get into the brush to jump rabbits, once the folage is gone.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:10 pm

Gus

My experience is once a dog is a trailer up, it will always be a trail seeker. They may learn to go in thick stuff to find a trail, but but still be a trail follower. Doing so silent would be better, opening is terrible, but here, both is bad.

I believe it is in their genes and a bred in trait. Somebody must breed for it and like it.

When I have a litter of pups and as soon as I see one skirting brush, head down, looking for cold tracks to trail up to a rabbit, its gone.

Others that hunt carefully with their heads up checking upwind for rabbit scent stay.

Watching a dog and how it positions itself in relation to the wind tell a lot.

Cottontail Chaser · Post by **Cottontail Chaser** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:36 pm

Thinking more on the technique my buddies "Jump-Dogs" seem to display when jumping rabbits is when they search out the woods,thickets or where ever the hunt is taking place is that when they are searching they don't tear up the woods but seem to be "Rabbit Smart" and are methodical and look where rabbits hide like up against tree's, in a tangled up vine on the ground or a log with an opening not just in a honeysuckle thicket and when you see them with 5 to 10 other dogs that are hunting their azz off but aren't jumping nearly the amount of rabbits the "jump-Dogs" are getting up you can see they just possess something that the others don't and I have seen them go behind where an entire pack just went through and they jumped the bunny..We went last year to a public hunting area that all the locals said was Shot Up and nothing left as multiple packs had been through there in recent weeks and came up with nothing and this was near the last week of hunting season, well out of 9 dogs we took those 2 jump-dogs jumped 7 of the 9 rabbits we took that day as well as every other day during hunting season ,95% or more of the rabbits was by these two...I bred to one of them last month with a gyp of mine that has the best nose and cleanest running out of my pack and plan on taking the best bitch out of the litter and breeding to the other Jump Dog and hoping that I get one as good as either of them and since they are both FC Wright's Shake bred I hope to get a solid producing bitch line..Like most have said on this post, TRUE JUMP-DOGS are rare and seldom reproduced but a hard hunting dog that stays in the brush is welcome to my feeding trough...I have enjoyed watching these two dogs go at it jumping rabbits, I myself have had only one of these dogs and every day I go out running I think of her and miss her dearly..

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:28 pm

Plowboy, SR Patch and HatterasBob has said a good jumpdog developed during a period of time when rabbit populations were low. Do you three feel its a mistake to exclusively run a pup only in the mornings during the summer months. Do you remember if you ra

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:47 pm

Sorry about that----Do you remember if you ran your jumpdog to be in the afternoon during the summer months?

Plowboy · Post by **Plowboy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:28 pm

I don't think there is a bad time to run dogs, more time in the field the better. I just wouldn't be to one demensional with it, where I live, this time of year early morning is the only time unless you are a night runner. When temps get more favorable you can identify the jump dog between 11:00 & 3:00 that is when they are hidden away in beds around here & dogs almost have to poke them up to get a flush. Wouldn't it be great to isolate that jump gene & put it in all our dogs. I wish I knew the secret formula but for now all I can say is some got it & some don't.
I know thats deep but best I can do...
Plowboy

Greg H · Post by **Greg H** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:07 am

You guys are hitting it right on the head. Up till now I hadn't thought about it much but my best was developed during a down time in the rabbit population. I think it helps taking pups, once they get started, out more on bad scenting days. I think if you watch you can see certain behavior, or habits and maybe even traits from these jump dogs. As John stated the good ones seem to spend as much time with their nose in the air as they do on the ground. Just last week I gave my jump dog away. He wasn't great but was good enough to allow him to stick around, (Not the fastest dog in the world) The reason I felt comfortable enough to let him go was because lately my 8 month old gyp has been getting just about as many rabbits up as him, and the other day while running I could see them trying to work something out along a fence row. The female suddenly picked her head up, looked out into a freshly mowed feild, and then started trotting out into this feild. I could see what she was zeroing in on and it looked like a clump of dead grass. You got it, Rabbit and the race was on. That rabbit was laying 100 ft. away from where the dogs were out in the middle of nowhere with it ears layed back over its body, hiding. I don't know what caught her attention but she never took her eyes off of it once she locked on. This same gyp spends more time at the back fence barking than the other dogs. Everytime, there is a rabbit feeding in one of the neighbors back yard.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:16 am

Several years ago we changed bloodlines to get some hunt and jumping ability into our hounds as we were getting to old to pound the brush much any more. The dogs we have get gone hunting the minute they're unsnapped and hunt like bird dogs. What we've noticed in my cousins male is he will stick his nose straight up into the air and when he does get ready as he is gonna bring a rabbit out. He's got a litter out of him and I watched a 8 month old male pup out of him last weekend stand straight up on his hind legs with his nose in the air whimpering. I thought he was looking for the other dogs when about that time into the thicket he went with the others behind him and they race was on. Looks like his daddy passed on that winding trait to him.

gus · Post by **gus** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:49 am

I would not consider it bragging if you guys would share dogs and pedigrees of dogs that show outstanding ability to locate rabbits in a sensible manner.

I would appreciate it as I am sure others would as well.

In my opinion, the best jump dogs that I have owned, the jump ability can be traced back to the Gay line of Frank Reese. I had a now deceased friend, Burleigh Davis, who had some Pearson Creek bred bitches that were good rabbit dogs. He bred one to Charlie's Ranger, Gay Baker's Littermate, and got Candy. Candy was a good rabbit dog as well. He then bred Candy to Gay Deal and got Burleigh's Dan. Dan was as good a gun dog as I have seen. He was excellent at jumping rabbits and was consistantly picking the checks time after time. I bred a hare bred bitch by SPO F Champion Sunken Land Sparky X Tiny's Furnace ST Bell, to Dan and got the best jump dog, Candy Sparks, I have owned in thirty plus years of beagleing. Candy did not produce a great jumpdog but her littermate sister, Gertie, produced Brandi. Brandi will jump rabbits all day long. My bitch Brandi's sire goes back to IFC Wingates Brandon and a lot more Gay bred dogs. Me and a friend have bred the Brandi line to Kalagha and had some success in carrying on the jumping ability.
Interestingly I bred a bitch out of Candy by PPCh Applachia Mountain Jay to Kalagha and the results were unsatisfactory in regards to jumping ability.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:04 pm

DarkCornerKennel wrote:Plowboy, SR Patch and HatterasBob has said a good jumpdog developed during a period of time when rabbit populations were low. Do you three feel its a mistake to exclusively run a pup only in the mornings during the summer months. Do you remember if you ra

There is no "set in stone" rule, we must learn to read our hounds to help bring out the best in all and ward off potental problems.
Remember when you taught your children to fish?
I have lots of nephews & nieces, they are all coming of age to hunt & fish. We provide the environment & the means in a balance to each, and let their nature take the lead on how we progress from there. Some only want to go to the pond, where the bluegill are pleantiful so to catch many. Others want to go to the deep pit where the big bass live, and they will fish all day for "one". One nephew has begged off every plastic worm I had, to fish the bass, and a cold November day is not to cold for him to be out there trying. He has taken two deer and has the desire and patents to wait out the day.
Yesterday, I was with 6 of them. They have the little recurve bows now and are learning Saftey and shooting. It was big competition among two of them and one could not handle second place, the other showed foccus and levelheadness , plus, his natural ability to just, "pick it up and do it" gave him an early edge.
We split them up into two groups, keeping to two lead hounds apart. Their maturity and the tempering of the metal will come later to go head to head, for now, the foccus must be on fun, saftey and accuracy.
How are puppies so different?
The low cycle would be like putting them all to fish the deep pit, some will feed on the challange and reward, others, will only become discouraged and take to throwing dirt clods or skipping rocks, even catching toads will be more enteraining to them, but, if the houndsman has the "eye" to read his young charges, he will provide the balance to each, to keep their interest alive and if the nature is within them, it will feed upon itself to bring them to their potental.
We can only try to bring out the best of each, but love them all...

Greg H · Post by **Greg H** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:54 pm

Great post SRPatch.

Gus
The best jump dog, and the only one I have owned that was truely a jump dog was from a GAY/BRANKO bred stud out of a Heavy GAY bred bitch. He just happened to be the only L/W dog ever produced from this bitch who had a Patch dog in her 5th generation. He was a Jump dog DELUXE.

The gyp that I am hanging all my hopes on is a BRAMLETT/SMOKES CREEK SYRIS MCGEE cross. The Bramlett stud is from the Black Diamond/ Black Queen cross. This cross as I understand it has been a real solid cross. The Bitch (mother to my gyp) is a daughter of Syris Mcgee on top and a Grand daughter to Heli Prop on the Bottom. She has Indian Hills Major in the maternal side in her 4th generation. These are the names we recognize. She also has Brendamier (spelling) on her dams side. As I understand these dogs can hold their own.

I already know she can hunt and time will tell if she has what it takes to make a great jump dog. As SRpatch has stated, all I can do is keep her running and present her with the toughest condition she will take. In a couple of years I may have a great jump dog. She already has the wheels and the intellegence, I just hope she will continue down the path she's on now.

DRS · Post by **DRS** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:01 pm

The best jump dog, and the only one I have owned that was truely a jump dog was from a GAY/BRANKO bred stud out of a Heavy GAY bred bitch.

I have a Gay bred bitch and just got a pup from Branko so maybe i can say the same just down the road.

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:40 pm

I acquired my jumpdog when she was 15 months old. She is a little dog weighing 17 lbs. and measures 12 inches. At 15 months old she had not been started. She was also hyper and seemed real nervous. She would drool, vomit and foam at the mouth when put in the truck. It took three years before she quit this. She is Bramlett ( Jones Ohio River Bear X Cravens Ky. Candy Two ). Frank Craven owned the litter that my dog came from. I called Frank when I first realized my pup's jumping ability in hopes of getting another. Frank said the littermates didn't amount to anything and the ones he had kept, he had now given away. My dog seems to know where rabbits live. The thickest tangle she sees is where shes going. She moves through a tangle swiftly and when she comes out shes looking for another. I have several other Bramlett dogs that hunt with their nose down a whole lot more than she does. She moves swiftly covering a lot more ground. She would have never made a good trial dog. Her cold nose made her a little loose mouthed. She made rabbit hunters out of a lot first timers. Made grown men run through briar choked cutovers trying to cut the rabbit off and at the end of the day when the hunters stood around the truck unloading their vest and telling each other they had dried blood on their ears and hands, all of them new Midnight's name.