Puppy pricing

[blackdirt beagles]

i get a little tired of everyone always wanting their pups to be guaranteed to do this or that by 1 year of age. i got a better idea... why dont sellers/breeders require the new owners to guarantee that they will have the dogs running by 8 months old and guarantee they will have their first gunseason and see 100 rabbits shot over them?? and if they cant do this, then maybe they shouldnt be buying a pup in the first place. if somebody buying a pup would guarantee me that, id be happy to guarantee my pups .

[blackdirt beagles]

I shouldn't even bring this up, but I'm going to. If we come to the conclusion that a well-bred beagle puppy is indeed worth $200-$300 ea., what is a decent price for a seasoned, gunbroke, trashbroke hound that handles like a dream? Sometimes I look thru the Trading Post forum and I see dogs fitting that description advertised for $450... Does this sound reasonable to most?

$450 for a well started 1 year old dog sounds ok to me. for a "nice" pleasure dog aged 2 - 6 years, id say $600 to $800. for a TOP gundog or trial dog, i guess id say maybe in the $1200 range. those prices id be ok with if i was buying or selling. my last dog i bought i paid $400 for and he was 1 1/2 year old and just a good started dog.

[Ricko]

Bev, if I can come watch a dog run, and prove itself based on it's own merit, to the requirements you've outlined, then yes I feel that's a fair price that I'm willing to pay! Again, that's me and what I'm willing to pay. Can't say the same for a guy that might have just got laid off or hit with a staggering college bill for his child's second term in college!

[Briarhoppers]

$450 is probably what the "average, going" price it. But, I'd say for a solid gun dog that handles well, is deer broke, not gun shy, or hand shy and has no major running faults and is about 3 years old that this hound should be worth $1,000.00.

I say that knowing that this is much higher than the going rate for this type of hound w/out a FC title. But consider this - $1,000 for a bird dog or even a coonhound of the same qualifty would be considered a steal.

Pup price $200.
Starting pen $50.
Kennel expenses $100/yr X 3 years = $300
Trip to field / woods to run $5/trip X 150 (in 3 yrs) = $750
Vet expenses / worming ~$300

So based on this rough example you may easily have $1,600 in this hound, which does not include any of you TIME, sweat and blood - which is precious!

It would be an insult to me if someone said, "Hey I'll give you $300 for that hound."

[Bev]

Okay, that's what I was thinking, too - just wanted to hear some others say it. I think a good, proven, broke dog is worth more than $450 in most cases. I too wouldn't mind paying $600 - $800 for a solid gundog that runs in the right direction, I wouldn't have to worry about catching or running trash. Everything else is gravy.

[HNTDAD]

I have to disagree with you guys on that one. That's like saying, I gave $25K for my truck but I've spent another $10K on gas/oil/repair bills so I have to have $35K to sell it now. You've presumably got a lot in return for your investment in enjoyment from this hound. I can't say I'd give much more than $450 for an average gundog that doesn't back track, run trash etc. Plus, there's no guarentee on how much return you're going to get from your investment becasue of unforseen reasons, sickness/death of the hound etc. Na, $450 is about as much as I'd pay and it would have to be a pretty good hound. Just my opinion.

[Briarhoppers]

A truck is a depreciating asset. It is worth most sitting in the car lot. You loose 10% when you drive it off the lot and it steadily declines from there. The gas used and miles driven do not make the truck more valueable, rather less valuable.

On the other hand, a hound should appreciate with age and it is not until 2 - 3 that they reach their potential and worth. And, everything that is invested in them should increase their worth.

Notice I said SHOULD. W/ beagles it is not the case.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Okay, I have not sold my first puppy yet but I have refered several families to my fellow show Beagle breeders in the North East who easily sell puppies to pet homes for $1000.00 each. Male or female.
Heck, go to the Mall and check out the ugly puppy mill Beagle pups that come with some useless registration papers (not AKC or UKC) that are selling for $999.99
I think you guys should raise your prices. I probably get three emails and one phone call a week from people looking for pet puppies. Only probably one in five is willing to pay the full price and qualifies (fenced yard, etc.) but that's all it takes as we don't breed many litters and our litters aren't huge to begin with. These are folks who want a pretty PET Beagle. They usually have no clue of the differences between field and show stock and care nothing about showing ("Westminster?? Is that the one on TV?" ).
I am guessing your litters tend to be similar to ours in that maybe one or two puppies look like they will turn out to be what you can use for your chosen sport and then the rest are "culls" that you sell to pet homes? If so, check out the going rate for nice pet quality Beagles from different breeders and pet shops in your area and decide for yourself if you think you have the stuff to compete with them
FWIW,

[HNTDAD]

Briarhoppers - To a certain extent I agree and the truck was probably a bad example. What I don't agree with is "everything that is invested in them should increase their worth." To me, that's just the cost of owning your hounds, it doesn't make them more valuable.

Honey Pot Hounds - If my beagle pups cost $1000, I'd have to find something else to do. Could I afford them? Yes. Could I justify it? Not to me, much less my wife. I've got two kids and one is getting ready to start college. I couldn't justify spending that kind of money on a puppy.

[klrconcrete]

wow!! This is way better than I expected I love it! I just had a litter of pups both hounds I own so no stud fee or travel costs, I did a tally of what I had into them including shots, wormer a trip to the vet with mom pre-whelp,two bags of pup food etc. all the typical stuff I came up with about 400 and some change I had 10 pups! 5male 5 female all survived with no help to mom at all. These were very well bred pups I sold for 75.00 dollars a piece I gave a couple away and have one myself that I am going to keep so I didnt make a dime but if I had sold all I would have been close to doubling my money to me thats not bad cosidering that the dogs really do all the work. I know a bunch of you are going to get on here and go nuts saying its so time consuming and how hard it is --Well no its not really at least not to me. So lets jump to a litter of 8 pups that someone sells for 300 each he has the same upfront cost and keeps or gives away 2 that leaves six --6x300= 1800-400 for the cost=1400 thats not bad ching for letting two dogs have sex!

[Ricko]

KLR,
Yup, could of paid the property tax for this year on puppy money!
10 pups is pretty good, but I recall reading on the Drudge Report a week or so ago about a dog that had 26 pups!! Struck the "Mother Load" on that one! Heck, if that were one of those $1000-a-pup litters.....someone could be on a Caribbean cruise even as we speak!!

[kytrapper]

i wouldent mind paying 200 for a pup if i really wanted it. most generally i get the pups i want for about 100 to 150 because me and all my buddies have an understanding that we give each other a break. i just bought a pup from my friend this morning that is pure northway bred, grandpup from fc. northway jumpmaster on one side grandpup from fc. milts woodstock rockstar on the other for 100 bucks. good friend. 4 months ago i sold a 7 month old female that was shaker and pacesetter bred up close because i didnt like her size or looks for 300, 5 mins later a guy told me he would have gave me 500 for her. it all depends how bad you want something. the pup i gave 100 for this morning i would have give more for if i would have had to because i watched pups from the first litter champion in lp by the time they were 18 months old and made outstanding gun dogs. what might be a 300 dollar pup to me may not be to somebody else or vise versa

[Bev]

Different people invest different amounts of time and effort into their breedings and litters. Of all the commodities available to us these days, time is the most scarce. Yes, your time (to insure a litter/breeding is done correctly from from start to weaning to pup's new homes) is worth something. Everybody's time is worth something. JMO.

There will be situation like KLR's where he owns all dogs involved and all that's involved is letting 2 dogs have sex. His investment (both time and financial) is minimal, so he feels adequately compensated at $75 per pup. He could just give them all away for free, but he wants his money and time compensated - even if on a smaller scale.

Conversely, we can't ignore that there are people who put a great amount of time, $$$, and effort into their breedings. Perhaps they seek to improve their own bloodline and recognize the need to go outside their kennel to breed. Or, they don't run males and don't see the need in kenneling males year-round just for breeding purposes. They've paid for bruc. tests, stud fees - they've traveled long distances or even shipped their female to be bred, had the vet remove the dewclaws and/or give the vaccinations. They've kept the puppies until they are 10-12 weeks and had at least 2 shots, several wormings, etc. They gotten the pups past the biggest danger zone and socialized them. There are likewise, buyers who don't mind paying extra for this kind of time and trouble, if it's the bloodline they want, and it saves them from having to make the breeding themselves to get it.

[Farwest]

hey farwest - maybe in twenty years if you do any kind of breeding at all, you'll be able to get $100 for your pups . as far as consistancy, the line i breed is one of the few "well known" lines that actually are consistant and not watered down or have 3 or 4 "strains" of the line like a certain bigname guy from your home country . id much rather have a kennel full of consistant dogs verses 2 or 3 "superstud dogs" and a bunch of average brood females. and these comments were directed towards no one in particular, so if you feel guilty, then im sorry.

Blackdirt sorry I don't feel the need to breed my bitches just because they are in heat.
As far as the rest of your statement goes, it is too funny to even begin to reply to. So I will just leave it with a quote from yourself that I also found to be very humerous. You are getting to be quite the comedian.
"all registries need some rule changes i would say, but you never see akc or arha trying ro push themselves down your throat like the ukc does and tell you how great they are. seems to me if you have to tell people how good you are...then you probably arent"

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Different people invest different amounts of time and effort into their breedings and litters..............

Very well said Bev!

It is true that many of the show folk do not keep male dogs unless they are outstanding and even then I hear that they rarely get requests to be used at stud....or the request doesn't involve money, usually only the offer of a puppy back, etc.

Also, as a bitch owner without my own studdogs I can tell you that in our show Beagle world a proven studdog's fee STARTS at $500.00 and that does not include shipping which is usually $200.00 each way...then we have tests, Mother and pup care, and all that other "cheap" stuff

So IF and WHEN we have a litter we really barely break even unless the litter is large and we sell most of the pups.