A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
One thing that never gets sorted out in these discussions is the difference between a babbling idiot and a dog with big nose that will tongue on a colder track. If you cant distinguish between the two then you will likely find yourself in one extreme or the other and you have made up your mind what extreme you prefer and will add nothing to this conversation other than your preference. Someone that does understand the difference or someone that lives in the extreme temps of the north country will likely find themselves in the middle ground trying to strike a perfect balance (maybe impossible). A dog that lacks nose and runs all over the woods hitting on occasional pieces of hot track can be way more disruptive than a dog that pauses at a trouble spot and pops off a few times. A trip to a local field trial will prove this to you every time if you have an open mind. There are also trial formats that will show you babbling idiots and how disruptive they can be.
It eventually all boils down to personal preference, and if your really that disturbed with what someone else is running, then stop running dogs with them. Most dogs could benefit from solo time or less pack pressure anyway and if you do like Buck said and get in there and watch you may discover your best dog is your worst dog......
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I think I can help seelow explain what he is talking about. Everybody loves a dog that barks hard while running, The key word there is running. From my 30 years I can't make a connection between good nose and over barking, The key to barking to me is moving the rabbit in the right direction. I like a dog that will bark when he is walking as long as he is making progress, I can't stand one that barks so much it leaves me guessing on wether he has it or maybe not maybe covered track maybe alittle backwards or maybe just check barking while looking. How can you watch a dog on a check bark all over with little or no progress and be confident enough to yell go on son when he is out of sight. With all that being said they have to be able to run a rabbit!!!! I would rather have one a little loose than can ran a track than prefectly honest that can't. The problem with a dog that over barks is the owner that insists that his dog is doing all the work, has allot better nose,or some how trys to justifie his dog for barking off. He just barks off, doesn't mean he is a cull or that he is better than the others.I talked to I young man that told me he went to try a dog with another guy. He said the young dog they tried jumped and ran this rabbit for the catch for 3 or 4 circles. After hunting this dog later with his dog he found that the new dog wasn't willing to bark where his was, instead of thinking maybe his dogs barks a little more maybe than it should he decided that his dog was doing all the work and the other was not much of a track dog at all. To me this is the issue, some bark to much, some can't run a rabbit if we are honest with what we have there wouldn't be much of an issue.
i always try to stay with the young dogs and correct them if needed with a little ride on the lightning bolt seems that if you correct them at a young age they will figure it out. but often its bred into a dog and they will go back to the bad habbits if not ran consistantly. but i like em to bark alot when they have it! and be as radical and loud as they can and run as fast as they can i dont mind if they over run the track with a few extra barks what the hell should a guy expect when a dogs running its fastest? and someone said how are you goin to shoot a rabbit with a dog tht dosent bark? oh well im goin to run dogs not sit and type later!
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If the dogs are not pushing the rabbit foward there should be no noises.In a check there should not be any barking untill they get the check and rabbit is back up and going.Got no use for a out of control barking dog all they do is mess up a pack of dog (jmo) .Not saying mine are prefect but only time they bark when the rabbit is up and moving.
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augerhead wrote:I think I can help seelow explain what he is talking about. Everybody loves a dog that barks hard while running, The key word there is running. From my 30 years I can't make a connection between good nose and over barking, The key to barking to me is moving the rabbit in the right direction. I like a dog that will bark when he is walking as long as he is making progress, I can't stand one that barks so much it leaves me guessing on wether he has it or maybe not maybe covered track maybe alittle backwards or maybe just check barking while looking. How can you watch a dog on a check bark all over with little or no progress and be confident enough to yell go on son when he is out of sight. With all that being said they have to be able to run a rabbit!!!! I would rather have one a little loose than can ran a track than prefectly honest that can't. The problem with a dog that over barks is the owner that insists that his dog is doing all the work, has allot better nose,or some how trys to justifie his dog for barking off. He just barks off, doesn't mean he is a cull or that he is better than the others.I talked to I young man that told me he went to try a dog with another guy. He said the young dog they tried jumped and ran this rabbit for the catch for 3 or 4 circles. After hunting this dog later with his dog he found that the new dog wasn't willing to bark where his was, instead of thinking maybe his dogs barks a little more maybe than it should he decided that his dog was doing all the work and the other was not much of a track dog at all. To me this is the issue, some bark to much, some can't run a rabbit if we are honest with what we have there wouldn't be much of an issue.
THANKYOU....Im not saying that a loose mouth dog can or cannot run a rabbit, or a tight mouthed dog... im just sick of taking good honest dogs that can run a rabbit to the woods and cant get a bark in edge ways for the fool that wont hush...lets just try to evaluate our kennnels and admit what we have.....when my dog barks i wanna be aable to say "you can bank on him "
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gun runner wrote:If the dogs are not pushing the rabbit foward there should be no noises.In a check there should not be any barking untill they get the check and rabbit is back up and going.Got no use for a out of control barking dog all they do is mess up a pack of dog (jmo) .Not saying mine are prefect but only time they bark when the rabbit is up and moving.
You my friend just explained my kennels, i hate a stupid azz shut the hell up hound. We have no use for the so called big nose dogs were i reside. Give me a little tight or should i say right mouth 24/7.
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.
I feel your pain C-Low. I like to be competitive and I expect my dogs to be likewise. A good dog will ignore the over barkers and move on. The barking dog will then have to get on up or continue doing what he is doing. If he does it to distraction, he should be removed from consideration.
I hear these terms "hot nose", "cold nose", "over barking", "babbling", etc. They can be confusing when splitting hairs about dog quality because they usually mean different things to different people. They are also used to verbally dominate other people during a rabbit race. When you spend a life time acquiring dogs to push the hell out of a rabbit and someone comes out there with a track straggling, barking moron, it can be very tempting to do so. Many times I have seen good dogs get beat down with verbiage. It works the other way also, I have seen good line running hounds controlling a race when a cuttin, slicin, non-barking fool comes in off the corner and takes the glory.
Best thing to do, just set back and let 'em run. Over time, the best will come to the top. In VietNam one time, we pulled the 4th Infantry out of a little scrap. When I got back to where there was a very rough crap house, someone had scribbled on the wall, "From the south they came, 1000 strong to fight the bloody Viet Cong... You see them now in the elephant grass, cause they let their mouths overload their ass".
A person never wins the "my dog is better than your dog" discussion because "my" dog is always better than your dog. Just ask me.
The Vietnam War required us to emphasize the national interest rather than abstract principles. Too each his own, Buck is right lay back they will figure it out for ya it just means getting off the cell phone and staying with your hounds.
It is because the old have forgotten life that they preach wisdom.
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.
MVK, we had no national interest in Vietnam nor an abstract principal. In the end, it was only about how many would die before this was realized. Going back next summer to get it out of my head. My crap house wall dictum simply had to do with the inability of a man's ego to be supported by a dog's ability to carry it.
I think cell phones should be verboten in the woods.
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If the dog can work an old track, advance on up the line and jump the rabbit, then he is producing and he aint barking off. I think we have all seen dogs like this if we have spent time in the woods running hounds. A dog that is mouthy will bark early, late, and in the check, coming out of the box and pretty much whenever it wants to. This has nothing to do with having a good nose. This type of hound usually barks a lot in the kennel also. I dont keep hounds like this, nor do I give them away. They are culled so that they arent bred and produce more idiots. As a rabbit hunter though, I like having a hound with a big nose that can smell an old track and produce a rabbit. I only have 1 like that at this time, all my others are pretty much hot nosed and wont open til they are right up on the rabbit. When we are trying to kill rabbits in January and February, and conditions are less than ideal, my old dog with the big nose will save the day.
I dont know if this will help but I found this in a ukc rulebook? It may help it may not.
Babbling is defined as
when a dog opens three times, or has been
struck, where no track is evident.
Ive seen alot of dogs win casts because they were a little more cold nosed than their fellow cast members hunting, They would start barking where the other dog or dogs would not and would eventually produce a rabbit... although they are only allowed so long to produce after they start barking, but thats a whole nother matter lol. It sucks for the hot nosed dogs but I guess it's just that day and if you get lucky with a good hot spot with lots of rabbits and the scenting conditions are perfect. I myself would prefer a dog thats right in between.. Not to hot not to cold lol.. Unfortunatly ive only got one or the other haha.. ive got one that absolutely wont bark untill she has her nose up the rabbits hiney and I have another that starts barking when he knows there is a rabbit there somewhere and usually always produces... I have absolutely no use for a dog that runs here and runs there barking and never produces or as I say barks to hear it's brains rattle, ive seen dogs so bad at doing this that others would check them and check them untill they would not honor them anymore. I guess it comes down to everyone has their own preference on what they like, it's not really a big deal to me although I could understand why a person would get aggervated hearing a dog bark so much but never produce, BUT as I always say.. if you dont like it dont run with them again LOL. Maybe someone should write a beagle book on the many ways a dog can and cant run rabbits hehe.
.Not saying mine are prefect but only time they bark when the rabbit is up and moving. 
THANKYOU....Im not saying that a loose mouth dog can or cannot run a rabbit, or a tight mouthed dog... im just sick of taking good honest dogs that can run a rabbit to the woods and cant get a bark in edge ways for the fool that wont hush...lets just try to evaluate our kennnels and admit what we have.....when my dog barks i wanna be aable to say "you can bank on him "