What bears the most weight?

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I will take a Field Champion and or a Grand Rabbit Champion anyday. As old blood stated " Titles are proof they are rabbit dogs, they earned those titles. I also believe eiether or will circle rabbits to the gun as rabbit dogs suppose to do. You will never make me think all the hours of running to get these titles dont mean something. If your cranking out 150-200 hours a month getting that special dog ready then it sure as there is cotton in mississippi it should be nothing but a pure azz Rabbit Dog.Jmho.

[KanesIrish]

the problem is this...because of the wide range in styles throughout the country...one man's field champion is another man's cull. In Kentucky there is a HUGE divide on what is thought a good rabbit dawg should be. So a person should see a dog run before they look into breeding to it, or buying a pup off of it.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I agree with you rob, i have often watched northern results and i was not familiar with any of the hounds. Most in kentucky are tickled too show off there hounds. I also wonder if your dogs were to come down here in aug when its 115 degrees and 100% hum how would they preform? And also if i came your way in deep snow how bout mine? I do agree i have not stepped away from my own hounds for years but you should watch the stud run if possible. I have said this before also we are forcing northern bred hounds to run cottontails when they are bred to run hare. I think sometimes in midwest the intial cut is kinda quick when ya got 9 big strong males wanting to race before they settle. Once again you know more than i but it is just my opinion.

[bucks better beagles]

Tony83 said: "if it's for sale than there's probably something wrong with it" this makes sense to me more and more these days."

You dad taught you sell son but, I have never seen the perfect hound. They have all got faults. Right or wrong. You can try raising them from a pup, but that is a imprecise practice at best. Some people sell dogs just for the money.

For all of you: is there a difference between "dawg" and "dog"? Just wondering if there is something I am spelling wrong.

[KanesIrish]

As far as speed goes I don't think there is a huge difference between what I saw last weekend and what we have up here on a weekly basis.

But things are different up here, a lot of the judges that were "big" judging SPO in the late eighties and early 90's are still prevelent in our association: Al Slocum, Bruce McNeilly, Stan Carpenter, Jack Frank, John Jarzynski. These guys have been around since there were still guys breeding brace rejects to large pack field champions in hopes of getting SPO dogs. At the same time there has been an influx of guys who used to concentrate on running large pack with their hounds, that feel that large pack has gotten out of hand in some parts so they are running there hounds in the IBGA: myself, Bill Petteruti, Rick Jarvis, Perry Piacentino, and others. This coupled with others are bringing to the table makes for some awesome races week in and week out. Speed wise, in the country the only association that promotes a faster hound then the IBGA is the Mid-West.

For the most part people up here don't get concerned with what the flavor of the week is, but whatever might improve their kennel. Whether or not it is inside their own or at somebody elses.

It's an interesting place, you see Flat Creek dogs running shoulder to shoulder with Branko stock, or stuff out of Rightstuff Billy Boy picking checks behind Shaker dogs (or even vice versa).

Fastrackpa could attest to this.

You can read more about our association here:http://beaglefieldtrials.com/ipb/topic/ ... msearch__1

[Bunnyblaster]

Again, a title does not make or break a dog........it's just a title based on someone else's opinion like others have already said. Title or not, watch the dog run and if it fits your definition of a rabbit dog then run it, breed to it or whatever else you wanna do. In the few trials I have attended I have seen dogs win that I personally did not think were the best dog. I have seen dogs lose that I thought were a better dog...........or at least on that day. I think as a whole the title has to bear some weight and I also realize that just 1 win or loss does not get or not get a title. But I also think in some cases you can take a dog to enough trials under the right conditions and do better and/or win just because of that. I have given this example before of a dog that I owned that was everything I wanted in a rabbit dog...........except he lacked the nose to get anything done in tough conditions. In good conditions I could have(and was told to by a couple of people) taken that dog to trials and done very well.......and probably could have finished him out. But imo what does that title mean? In this case I knew all it meant was on good days he was a great dog but on bad days he wasn't worth owning..........you might as well have left him in the kennel.

Please don't take offense because I think as a whole titles do mean something but at the same time you can exploit the system to finish out a dog that again imo is not deserving of it. I guess this is where my own personal definition of a rabbit dog comes in. I want a dog that can get it done on most any conditions. As another example what about a dog that doesn't hunt for it's own rabbit but once the rabbit is up it is a tracking fool? To some this doesn't always matter but to others the dog is a cull.

[bucks better beagles]

Bunny, I would like to explore this statement..."As another example what about a dog that doesn't hunt for it's own rabbit but once the rabbit is up it is a tracking fool? To some this doesn't always matter but to others the dog is a cull".

I used to harbor this same sentiment and still do to some degree. I met an old guy once who had just this type of dog. He ran 10 or so every time he went out and some of them were hunting fools. So, being young I asked him why he kept such a dog as you described. I have never forgotten his answer. He said, "Well, that dog don't hunt so well but I have others that do. They can jump the rabbit and when they do, he will look awful good".

I am older now and hunt a lot of dogs and I feel..."tis true, tis true".

[Tonyallen83]

BBB when speaking of running ten dogs at a time it escapes me how you can judge a hound. I will not make a judgement on a dog without trying it by itself. If I get on this site and say I have a young dog that is a running fool and runs every race with my dogs and goes hunting hard with them I would be afraid that the man that buys him would take him by himself and he would be standing in the road. Before I will tell someone what a dog will do I have to see him in the daylight by himself and with the pack. Maybe some can judge a dog with ten or 15 others but I'm not that good. Maybe this is what's happening with all these misrepresentations.

[Tonyallen83]

I agree with you rob, i have often watched northern results and i was not familiar with any of the hounds. Most in kentucky are tickled too show off there hounds. I also wonder if your dogs were to come down here in aug when its 115 degrees and 100% hum how would they preform? And also if i came your way in deep snow how bout mine? I do agree i have not stepped away from my own hounds for years but you should watch the stud run if possible. I have said this before also we are forcing northern bred hounds to run cottontails when they are bred to run hare. I think sometimes in midwest the intial cut is kinda quick when ya got 9 big strong males wanting to race before they settle. Once again you know more than i but it is just my opinion.

I agree completely I had an earlier post I think so much hare breeding has greatly impacted the tracking ability of the hounds we are running on cottontail these days in the south.

[fulcount]

Tony ,remember if it weren't for the so called 'HARE DOGS" or HARE BREEDING
you guys in the south would still be struggling with the brace dogs!!!

A lot of so called HARE BREEDING can and will do a commendable job RUNNING on
cottontail They are not all as wild as people would believe
Dont knock them they saved your ass for good gun dogs in the south
Lest we forget you guys came to us up north we didn't come to you for
dogs way back when

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Now Now John You yankees did do us a small favor. But, The South Has Rose Again.

[Greg Wells]

I would say in my opinion an AKC FC that has finished in the Mid-West under several different sets of judges within no more than two full years of trialing holds more value in my eyes. They don't have to win everytime, but be consistent enought to place 80 % of the time. This tells me the dog has no major faults such as repeated lack of hunt, backtracking, overrunning, swinging wide in the check, skirting, etc. ; it's all in the rulebook. Foot is easy to get & over competitive hounds are easy to create with the wrong kind of training. Back when I used to judge,I loved a hound that could handle the track as long as it was under control ,but the check area should start out at the point of loss by every hound in the pack & gradually,progressively & quietly move outward until the true line is claimed with a loud enough tongue for the other packmates to hear ;we used to say "we could throw a blanket over them in the check". I think an active judge should be reading the AKC rulebook like a preacher reads his Bible.

[fulcount]

Greg I agree with you too many "judges" never look at the book
only at the seminar then go out and forget what it says
making up their own

[chapkosbeagles]

Say what you want but I want the hound that is thowing top hounds so I can have them for years to come lol

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Say what you want but I want the hound that is thowing top hounds so I can have them for years to come lol

Ya better come on down south and get on our Bus before it pulls off.