Breeding 2 Gun Shy Dogs

[Joeyman]

I like gun-dogs not gun-shy dogs. not sure on breeding of the gunshy i've never tried it or want to even try it.

[sanfordssj]

Riverbottom...I'm glad to see somebody knows what they're talking about on here!

Gunshy IS NOT a heradiatary trait!

[bill huttozac]

Riverbottom --- well stated!! I am with you!!!

[eddywilliams]

Shyness is hereditary ,shyness towards people I bet they will be shy towards the gun .I have raised more than 1 or 2 litters in my time and championed most of the dogs I've owned .Like I stated earlier ALOT OF GUN SHYNESS IS MAN MADE ,from shooting up close to a young dog .......... I have seen alot of shy gyp's bred because of the blood line and a good percentage of the pups were shy from the get go some took a lot of time and work to just be able to handle them let alone shoot around them .:

[Bobby Vest]

I agree with some of what you say River Bottom but any of us that have been around dogs very long know that some dogs from birth just like some people are way more nervous than others. When a pup is this spooky from birth it's a bred in trait not taught. I know a lot of them could be cured but some you could work with for ever and they would still be backward and nervous.

[bill huttozac]

Eddiewilliams -- Because of you excellant credentials as a breeder/trainer and trialer, I must assume that you never raised a litter from a shy dog, be it hand, kennel or gun. Like you, I have many years experience breeding and training hunting dogs, sixty one to be exact. I have owned young dogs that showed mild to moderate fear of a gunshot eventhough neither Sire or Dam had this fault.
I soon discovered the problems; First, My sons shooting fire works too close to the kennel and Second; My sons, as young hunters, shooting a jumped rabbit over the heads of the dogs or shooting off game (quail, squirrel, skunks) while rabbit hunting. Sometimes they would shoot a rabbit shortly after a young dog joined the race and on the first circle. Once the boys realized that it was not about killing or the rabbit but about training and enjoying the hounds, I had no more problems of this nature. Now, if my sons made these mistakes it only stands that many others make the same ones plus some others with their youg dogs. My sons, like many adults, did not know that a mature dog of average intelligence only has the mental capacity of a 4 year old child. The boys were expecting by far too much from a starter dog or one with a single season's hunting. Dogs are a lot like people, neither will react in exactly the same manner to the exact same situation. Yep, most fault in our hounds are "man made".
Bobby--- you are correct. All pups of any cross are not of the same temperment, personality or ability. Fact is, they are a lot like our children, each different.
IMO, this is one of the more benificial treads on this board. Every single post has merit.

[eddywilliams]

Bill Huttozac ,I cant distinguish if your bashing or agreeing but no I havent raised litters from shy females I said I have witnessed crosses being made by people .Breeding dogs that 1 or both were extremely shy to not only people but shy in the field because of the blood line or the fact that they could run a rabbit right and from my experience, 35 years Bill ,I have seen most of these turn out to be shy in all ways whether they were handled alot or not .I personally wont breed or have dogs of this nature .

[bill huttozac]

Eddywilliams-- Rest assured that I am not one to bash another's opinion. We form opinions based upon experiences and what we perceive to be the facts at that time. Now about dogs being hand sor kennel shy. I have witnessed well socialized pups and dogs being made this way. They learn to distrust from being scolded because they are barkers in the kennel, scolded and abused with e-collars, improper efforts to break from running off game, kennel and dog box doors slammed in their faces and being treated poorly in general. Some people do not want their dogs to rear upon on them and scold them for doing so. To discourage this, often, the person will hit the dog or step on the dog's hind foot. This kind of treatment leads to being people shy simply because the dog does not know what to expect and stands back until the person makes clear his intent. A point that I think many Beaglers will agree on is that there are too many people out there trying to train dogs that , through a lack of knowlege and understanding the animal, are creating some real problems. And, when things go wrong, it is always the dog's fault. I agree totally that in some cases a pup is born with undesireable traits for which there are no explanations (personality defect).

[JCM]

some dogs from birth just like some people are way more nervous than others. When a pup is this spooky from birth it's a bred in trait not taught. I know a lot of them could be cured but some you could work with for ever and they would still be backward and nervous.

Good point, and even if it doesn't show, or you blame gunshyness on environment, there is absolutely no reason to ever breed to gunshy dogs. There are far too many good dogs that are not gunshy to ever consider breeding to one that is.

Maybe you aren't a hunter. Maybe you just run dogs for fun, but can you be sure that anyone that ever gets a dog from this cross, or the next generation won't hunt? And can you be 100% sure that there are no traits that would make a dog out of two gunshy dogs more likely to be gunshy? Breeding good dogs is extremely difficult. Starting out with two dogs with extreme faults makes no sense what so ever.

As Bobby said, there are some traits that can be cured, but why would you even make a cross knowing of this problem? It shows a real lack of regard for the long term betterment of the breed.

[sanfordssj]

The issue seems to be if the dog is naturally timid from its breeding/hereditary, or if the dog has been mistreated or ruined from an owner/handler.
This would be the main factor in the decision on if the pair should be bred. I completely agree with everyone that if the dog is naturally born (hereditary) timid and is gun shy you should not breed it. But, if the dog was known to be a solid rabbit and gun dog until it was mistreated by someone why wouldn't you feel safe to go forward with it? Hopefully everyone understands what I’m trying to say here?

Alot of humane factors here to be concerned with!

[DRamey]

Sure, breed them. Then send them to a pet shop in a mall in a big city where shysters are ready to take money from fools who don't know what to do with money.

I'm kidding, guys!!! I once donated a nice male to the National WIld Turkey Federation for their Ky. State banquet auction. Some chick got drunk and bid $500. Got the hound, kept him 6 months, had him neutered and gave him away. DOn't think she even ever sent papers in.

What does this have to do with breeding two inferior dogs? If you have a really good cross, stupid people do stupid stuff. If you breed two inferior hounds, what kind of life will they have? Worse by far, I'd say.

BTW, I will never donate a pup to something like that ever again. Too much out of my control.

[eddywilliams]

Lot of different scenarios all is good

[Newt]

Shyness is hereditary ,shyness towards people I bet they will be shy towards the gun .I have raised more than 1 or 2 litters in my time and championed most of the dogs I've owned .Which was nice I didnt have to pay some one else top dollar .Like I stated earlier ALOT OF GUN SHYNESS IS MAN MADE ,from shooting up close to a young dog .......... I have seen alot of shy gyp's bred because of the blood line and a good percentage of the pups were shy from the get go some took a lot of time and work to just be able to handle them let alone shoot around them .So who ever stated that shyness isn't hereditary just proves what i've said along about a certain individual ON HEREYOU DONT KNOW DIDDLY SQUATT

I don't know Mr. Squat but I have had some experience with stranger shy dogs.
The second beagle that I owned, Tramp, was stranger shy. It took me several days to get the dog comfortable with me. If someone visited and sat and talked in the back yard, this dog would go to the fartherest end of the yard and stay. Once the person left, Tramp woudl sneak over and smell their chair, ready to run off at the least provacation. I killed more rabbits in front of that dog than any other that I have owned.
Did you ever visit Little Ireland Kennel? He had several dogs that were stranger shy. His Stud "LI Beau Brady" would booger bark from the time a stranger drove up until he left. Tom Dornin bread Beau Brady to a Weir Creek bitch, Samantha. IMO, it was one of the more successful matings that he made. I don't remember any of the pups being shy. I bought a young male by LI Binky X LI Jan. Jan was by FC Wilson's Timmy II. Tom couldn't even catch the dog when I came to pick it up. His wife Velta, who fed thd dogs dailey, had to come out and catch him for me. The first time I ran him, I couldn't catch him, I had to trap him to bring him home. He was never gun shy. Once he trusted me I treated him the same as I would any dog. He was not shy, just didn't trust starngers.