why cant grown men just be honest

[warddog]

Patch,
I don't know if you are asking me or what BUT I will weigh in with an answer. I say that BOTH the buyer and the seller must be men of their word. If a dog was supposed to be purchased by a man and the seller sent him the dog and it was as it was represented then the buyer must also be a man of his word and pay for the dog, plain and simple, no excuses. If I was the seller and I got the dog to the buyer free of charge I would feel that my conscience also matched my word and even build more upon my character. If the buyer did NOT pay for the dog then I would consider them to be the one in violation of their word and they would either get the dog back to me or pay me. I would NOT and I say NOT send any papers until the dog was paid for. If they couldn't pay for it then they need to return the dog to the owner as they have no rights to something they didn't pay for and wrongfully possess. To take or appropriate anothers property without right with the intent to make use of it wrongfully is stealing. Now in my book that's not a man of his word and not only a scoundrel but worse yet, a thief!

[S.R.Patch]

Patch,
I don't know if you are asking me or what BUT I will weigh in with an answer. I say that BOTH the buyer and the seller must be men of their word. If a dog was supposed to be purchased by a man and the seller sent him the dog and it was as it was represented then the buyer must also be a man of his word and pay for the dog, plain and simple, no excuses. If I was the seller and I got the dog to the buyer free of charge I would feel that my conscience also matched my word and even build more upon my character. If the buyer did NOT pay for the dog then I would consider them to be the one in violation of their word and they would either get the dog back to me or pay me. I would NOT and I say NOT send any papers until the dog was paid for. If they couldn't pay for it then they need to return the dog to the owner as they have no rights to something they didn't pay for and wrongfully possess. To take or appropriate anothers property without right with the intent to make use of it wrongfully is stealing. Now in my book that's not a man of his word and not only a scoundrel but worse yet, a thief!

I don't think a thief, but I believe the gate is still open if payment has not been received, for either party to back out of the deal. I've held checks for months to see if people were happy with their hounds, there's still two laying on the counter now for a couple of puppies I sold a couple months ago. I don't do this for the money. Sometimes you have some hounds that you've bred from and you let them go for others to get some good pups also(believe it or not).
Maybe I'm wrong, it's not good to get upset over a dog. I'll just send the papers so I won't be a lair anymore...goodnight

[ricky murphy]

I have to get something off my chest. Last winter i got a male beagle from a guy in my home town, (bronson michigan) his boy fell in love with my Rowdy dog and wanted to trade even up. Told me the dog i was getting was a real good rabbit dog, his only fault was a little cold trailing, he told me he didnt have his AKC papers in hand, but would send them as soon as he could. Long story short, he didnt have the papers, i didnt get a chance to hunt this dog last winter, because the snow was so deep, So i have been running this year, i dont shoot a lot of rabbits but decided to today. The dog is is GUN SHY, why do people have to be so dishonest? I do not understand people, the way i was raised and the way i am raiseing my boys is you be a man of your word. This guy is a piece of crap he is a lying cheat and about the most dishonest terd i have ever had the misfortune of meeting. I am a hard working man, like most people in this country, i cant afford to shell out three-four hundred dollars for a nother dog. What makes people this way? I am so pissed off right now i cant see straight.

Most fellows( not all) butttttt MOST--DONT WANT TO GET SHY OF A REAL GOOD HOUND.Maybe you you set your self up for this type of event to happen.Next time you have a real good dawg like you describe your Rowdy dog to be ---KEEP HIM.Around here it takes alot of time an effort to give a hound enough rabbit tracks for me to consider it finished in the wild.So this makes a Good dawg worth a whole lot more than most are willing to pay,,,,so i say Keep your Good ones in the Future---Hind Sights 20/20 for all of us!

[blckcrk-dog]

most of us down south call this a tail light warranty ,lets face it if its for sale its got a fault if you buy it without trying it you got a fault,if he wont let you try before you buy its got a fault,try it you like it buy it,try it you dont like it deny it ,simple procedure this is not rocket science if you get burnt its your fault as much as the sellers this is what is wrong with things today blame your mistake on someone else so you can feel better about getting screwed because you did not check things out good enough ,would you buy a car without driving it?did you marry your spouse without knowing them?suck it up and move on.would you sell your good dog ?no you wouldnt Ive been burnt by the best and the worst whos fault ? my fault I left my mule where it could be stole.

[warddog]

Are all you folks that say it was the buyers fault, so suck it up and move on condoning such actions? Seems to me that is the root of alot of trouble in this world where people just don't have trust in others. I say if a man tells me something he better stand behind what he says and if not I'm not the one to be blamed when I trusted him to do so. I'm seeing more and more why this ole world is in the shape it's in. I remember when I was a kid we never locked our house or car when we left it and many times the keys were even left in the car. We used to pick up hitch hikers and give them rides all the time and I had an uncle that never did have a drivers license and he would hitch hike into town every time he went. It's a sad shape when people still have some trust left in their fellow man but yet when they put it in them they get shafted and others say it was their fault for having that trust. I guess it's time for me to get with the program in protecting myself in my dealings and live with the mind set of " In God I trust all others must sign with their blood" and any dealing would be in writting as a man's spoken word is useless. By the way test driving a vehicle around the block will tell you nothing much about it over the long haul. Maybe now that folks are readily agreeing that a sellers word means nothing in a deal how many of you got cows for sale that will keep my frig full of fresh milk? For those that may have them, I'll have to try those cows milking ability numerous times to assure that they do as you say they will but better yet why not just let me take them on a two week trial. Now, I can see how the question has aired of "why buy the cow when you can get the milk free." A sorry state of affairs in my opinion!

[kennethgreene]

Suck it up? I think thats crap! First of all, I traded my rowdy dog because i wanted a smaller dog, here in southwestern michigan there are a lot of brush piles and low hanging fence rows and it was hard for rowdy to get through them, he was a good 15.5 inch's. And to the person that said i have no right complaining a year later is full of crap, i didnt run dogs last winter because the snow here was too deep. Do you think this dog got gunshy by not being run, what a bunch of crap. Why is it so easy for so many people to think it is ok not to be a man of your word? My grandfather ran beagles, my father ran them, i learned from both of these men to be a man of my word, period. It is not ok to lie about a dog. To the gentlemen who asked who the person was, his Name is Tim Waller, from bronson/colwater area in southern michigan.

[blckcrk-dog]

get over it you are beating a dead horse.

[davidc5936]

Patch, you pose and interesting question. I know dog deals can get complicated, but my own feelings would be that if I'm the seller, until the money changes hands, it's still my dog. If I agree to wait 2 months for the money, then I would not ask for the dog back before the 2 months were up, but at that time, I would want my money or the dog. I would also feel obligated to hand over the papers when the money changed hands. In a situation like you described, where the buyer asks for more time to pay, things can get real foggy real fast, and I would hesitate to get involved in a deal like that. There's nothing like a dog deal to find out how honest a man really is!!

Here's the bottom line- none of us will sell a perfect dog. Period. If we are selling a broke or started dog, it's because we have something better than that dog in the kennel. Now, sometimes guys who only field trial may sell a dog who grows out of the class he normally runs, but rarely, if it looks like a really good one, and then they would only sell it to a friend who ran that class dog. If it is advertised on the net for sale, you can bet there's a good reason. It may be like a dog my son and I bought- it was a step too slow to run with the man's pack. That's a legitimate reason to sell what someone else may call a really good dog, but when I read the description of many of the dogs advertised for sale on the net, I always wonder what isn't being said.

Like many on here have said, both parties need to honest and up front. Unfortunatly, that sometimes is not the case.

[mike crabtree]

david c, Which female did you get from me?? I swear I cant remember!!!

[george pirman]

What a great thread! Now let me get it correct. A man "kennethgreene" does some Beagle dog tradeing. He has a "my Rowdy Dog" that he freely lets go to another person and he never sees the AKC papers or sees the Beagle run a rabbit or sees the Beagle run a rabbit under gunfire. He may or may not have ever turned over the AKC papers on his "Rowdy Dog" that he just freely let go for this new dog. Then a year later he tries to hunt over the new dog and is unhappy with what he got in the trade.

Boy I sure would like to spend a day watching his great "Rowdy Dog" that he freely let go in this trade. I bet he was a DANDY!

[Bev]

LMAO! You kill me, George. Good points.

Sorry. Carry on.

[S.R.Patch]

What a great thread! Now let me get it correct. A man "kennethgreene" does some Beagle dog tradeing. He has a "my Rowdy Dog" that he freely lets go to another person and he never sees the AKC papers or sees the Beagle run a rabbit or sees the Beagle run a rabbit under gunfire. He may or may not have ever turned over the AKC papers on his "Rowdy Dog" that he just freely let go for this new dog. Then a year later he tries to hunt over the new dog and is unhappy with what he got in the trade.

Boy I sure would like to spend a day watching his great "Rowdy Dog" that he freely let go in this trade. I bet he was a DANDY!

Hey George,
After you get done watching the Rowdy dog, go down to Londonridge Tenn. and run with my Lucy bitch.

I love watching a man eat crow...

I don't know Kenneth Green from apply butter but I think there are alot of people on here who could learn something from him.

[mud]

I agrree with Patch lot to be learned from this post.My thoughts are the post runs deeper than just Kenneth Green and Rowdy. We have all been taken advantage of and Lied to.No matter the situation of who is at fault.Be honest and tell the truth.

[rabbitsmoker]

DOG DEALS HAS CAUSED MORE CONFUSION THAN ANYTHING MAKING INSTED OF MAKING FRIENDS IT MAKES ENEMYS IF PEOPLE TRADE DOGS OR BUY DOGS WITHOUT CHECKING THEM OUT 1ST SOME ONE ONES GOING TO GET THE BAD END MY SUGGESTION IS IF YOUR NOT GOING TO CHECK A DOG OUT 1ST IT YOUR OWN FAULT IF YOU CANT SWIM STAY OUT OF THE WATER IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES WHY DOES ANYONE WANT TO TRADE AND WHEN SOMEONE SELLS A DOG THEY MAKE IT SOUND SOOOO GOOOOD WE NEED TO BE SHOW ME WHAT YOUR DOG WILL DO DONT TELL ME THE BEAGLE CIRCUIT WOULD BE ALOT BETTER OFF AND LESS WOULD BE MAD THATS WHY I RAISE MY OWN IF I BUY AN OLDER DOG I BUY OFF 1 MAN HE GUARATEES THE DOG TO SUIT ME I LIKE HIS PHILOSPY NEVER SELL A DOG YOU WOULDNT BUY BACK

[mud]

No crying on my end rabbit smoker.You see my post. I have been screwed plenty somtimes my fault sometimes not. When I get screwed I don't come on the net bad mouthing anyone.However I fell its my obligation to stop the cycle somewhere.If I am took then I need to man up and not try and take the next guy. So I eat the loss and learn a lesson.In my view buying running dogs on the net period is a risky business.Young dogs and pups getting ready to be started is different. Just my 2 cents