A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
It is not unethical for a puppy buyer not to use your kennel name on a puppy you decided to get rid of...
Say I bought a puppy from a popular line but didn't want the puppy to get favoritism at the trials over having this popular name, I wanted him to earn it on his own merrit... ... Should I have to put "the name" on the pup, or should I ethically be able to test the pudding...
i agree... if you buy a dog from someone and it is 6wks old say, you name it so and so's whatever, i think that is perfectely fine.... your paying for it and also you are raising the pup as well as training it.
oakhill wrote:For sure it is ALL about money. If AKC didn't see dollar signs $$$$$ they would not even bother with it.
If I sell a pup with just puppy papers the buyer can name that pup whatever they want. I do not have any strings attached to any pup I sell. But, if I sell a hound that has been registered by me and I have named it then I would not want that named changed because I put alot of work into a hound that I have trained.
Sally, does the rule not say, if you are the breeder and the one who single registers the hound, the name may not be changed without your permission?
I think your ok in your example...if you say no, then it's no...
Yup, that's the way I see it also...
Some are getting their advertising done free at the buyers expense on the misconseption that the use of the kennel name is required. Now that the name can change if not registered by the breeder, one will have to single register all the puppies to maintain that control. If one is only breeding a couple litters a year @ a 5 puppy average, that's only a couple hundred dollars for keeping your name at the top of the page...
Now for those who breed alot of pups it may get costly, may be better to pay the late fees after the cullings been done... ... have to get the boy to do some cipher'n on this one...
i dont raise alot of pups when i do its for my use i just cant see advertiseing for another kennel for FREE if i baught a pup from a big time kennell they didnt give it to me from FREE um in a sutuation now that i got a female that i baught after she was registered akc she has 2 different names on paper one for akc n the other arha/nkc i wanna switch to the name thats on the nkc papers if i can she hasnt had a litter yet but soon will in about 63 days what kind of problem will i have with akc in switching names i wont switch kennell names just call name jb
if i am not breeder i dont care who kennel name is on those papers. but if i want a pup leaving here with my name i'll have to send them in, all about money. can u see having to send in 6 week old puppy papered, not good enough to just rite the name on the pappers, because most pups can be reg. on line know. what a mess.
SR Patch,
Personal Ethics is what you your self believe is to be right. Not that I feel anyone is unethical for changing the dogs name. It is up to you and your standards.
I believe the name issue is between the breeder (Seller /and the buyer) and the new dog owner. If the agreement at time of sell is to put the kennel name on the dog, then you should honor that agreement. If we buy a dog and the agreement between the breeder is to place the kennel name on the dog then it should be that way. Now if it is an open agreement to name the dog what ever you want then I don't see that there should be a problem. It is something that is between the buyer and seller. As for AKC and their rules it is money thing, that is the point I was trying to get across. I can see both sides of this issue.
I have Ch out dogs in other breeders names, my hard work my money and they got the cuddos for doing it...
People look at the dogs name and go to that breeder for pups, even if they like that dog and that dog has pups on the ground they will go to the breeder that has the kennel name so it is a double edged sword.
On the other hand as a breeder of not so many pups, and I work hard at getting good ones out there and has another kennel name on it, they look at the name and say man that is a good dog you must raise good pups. Not everyone is savey on lines of dogs as those that have been around the block a time or two.
Then there is the naming of the dog and you still can't tell what kennel the dog came out of for instance. What kennel did Kristina's Little Rose come from? What kennel did Rose's Keepsake Wishbone come from? What kennel did Rosie's Just By Chance come from? This is another point I think that everyone is trying to get across.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
wvdeuce, all her whatever you want. Call names have little to do with registered names. Sometimes they are a derivative, sometimes not. I have a female named Freedom Run Miss Liberty whose call name is Libby (there's your derivative) but her littermate brother, Freedom Run Rapid Redemption, his call name is Willy. He was the tiny runt in that last litter I had, and the question was "will he" ever get over 13". "Will he" became Willy over time. It's not necessary to erase history until you alter it or contribute to it by breeding for the sake of a call name.
My old Jack dog's name was E.B. Bracken Blue. He came from a long line of FC's and Mr. Bracken's knowledge in breeding. He sired 8 litters in his lifetime and every last puppy has E.B. Bracken Blue listed as the sire. I bred him to my females, I'll give one for example, Gunsmoke Blue River Penny, and the pups became Cottontail Blues Geronimo, Cottontail Blues whatever from that point forward. They were a result of our choices (me and ex, and ex kennel name) but their parents were not. Dolly is my dog, I've owned her since she was young, I've put thousands of hours of time in her over the nine years I've had her, I'm the one who put her titles on her, made breedings and raised her puppies, seen her through illnesses and good times. A dog couldn't be more mine, but I wouldn't dream of changing her name from O'Dell's Goff Mtn Dolly to Freedom Run Dolly, any more than I would change my kids' last name to Cross. Larry O'Dell Harrison is not a big-time breeder, but what he has done over the generations is commendable; she only exists because of his foresight and skill, and I would never take that away from him.
Can you imagine if FTC Branko's Jack Of All Trades had been renamed as a one-year-old to Freedom Run Jack? The rest of my dogs could have been total culls, but generations later when Freedom Run Jack showed up 10 times in a pedigree, and the dog had gone on to sire 39+ champions, the Krpan's would never get the credit for the one breeding decision that really made the difference.
To me it's a matter of principle and respect. If a breeder hands you a puppy with blank papers and says "Go for it, get your start, name it as you like" then no big deal. But this thread is not about naming dogs, it's about renaming dogs.
Renaming the dog that has already been named can cause some problems I can see. Say you notice a dog and it is named a certain name you know that name and put it down in the little book dog to breed to... Reds running rocket and then since new owner don't like the name that was on the dog he re names that dog Johnny's afterburner... here is the scenario, here I am watching or used to know who has the dog named Reds running rocket and all of a sudden this dog disappears off the map... It would be difficult to post on the boards does anyone know where Reds running rocket is? I have a female I want to breed to that dog, no one would have any idea what the registration number was unless they personally knew the breeder and that is if that fella kept good records.. all the time here is Johnny's Afterburner out there just tearin it up and that was the original dog I was looking for but due to the name change no one had any idea that was the dog I was looking for. And say that this breeding that I was planning could have been the all time breeding of beagledom all missed out of a fantastic cross because of a name change.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
Everybody wants to keep that kennel name on the pups with potential. What about those pups you sell for pets that do not have good confirmation or bad bites. Are you just as adamant on keeping your kennel name on them?
How much does a good "show" pup run these days and how much does it cost to raise a litter? I believe back around Christmas I saw these pups going for $800+. Heck eat the extra $20.00 and name them all yourself if you are that worried about it. If $800+ isn't enough profit, pass the fee on to the buyers lol. In the past I may have had a problem with this but that was back before I started my sorting method that I use now. I don't sell pups for pets. I don't raise as many litters anymore either but I like what I am producing so don't have a need. I breed for me. I sort on conformation and ability. If the pup doesn't stack up in conformation he is gone as soon as I see the fault I can't live with. If he makes it to starting age, he is sorted on ability. If the pup makes it here past a year he will have my kennel name. If he is sold or given away, I could give a hoot what his name is. If that dog goes on to be competitive in the trials.........I KNOW who bred him and I get a sense of pride for both the cross that I produced AND the owner that thought enough of him to campaign him. If that dogs name changes, why should I care? I am the breeder! My name will ALWAYS be attached to that dog. If folks want to know where that dog is from its EASY enough to find out. If they don't, no sweat off of my back.
All really good points,Windkist I believe my opinion is swayed in the way of keeping kennel name. I have always put the bloodlines (kennel) name on my dogs that I have bought from other breeders
TC, if you want breed on a one time performance and don't know any more about old Red than his name, it's better that he disappeared...
If Fredom Run Jack had only sired culls who would have bred to him?
If he hadn't gotten to the right trials, he may never have became FTC, but then again, we could go the other way and say, "does a name make the hound or does a hound make the name"?
Most beaglers when impressed with a hound first want to know, "what's he/she out of, and who bred him/her"?
If Branko had ok'd the changing of Jack's name, he'd still been the breeder and you'd been just as proud when asked, to have said, "yes, he's a Branko hound", but this would have had to be done before he gained a title or sired any pups, right?
I agree with TC, gets way too hard to track a dog if your not the breeder.I also agree though if the breeder is willing to let you put your kennel name on it so be it, but to change it later is not good at all. This is the way it is in Canada I believe but not as much $$'s to do the name the litter.
... Should I have to put "the name" on the pup, or should I ethically be able to test the pudding... 
... have to get the boy to do some cipher'n on this one... 
JUST AS JOHN SEES IT
