Cold nose or big nose????

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NorWester
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Post by NorWester »

:lol: :lol: So someone explain to me how a dog KNOWS a rabbit is runnable before he runs it? How is it that the guys that are always running in fair weather are the ones that figure they know all about nose power?? You guys should plan a trip up north with your BIG NOSE hounds that won't open till they are looking at the rabbit and see what happens in when its cold and you're standing in two and a half feet of snow. :roll:
It's not that life is short......it's just that we're dead for such a long, long time...

bill (flint river )
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Post by bill (flint river ) »

lol..... the jude twins. like i said u wouldnt know a good hound if it bite u in your butt. and when i read a post by a idiot, i have to step in a tell ya, u are wrong, but hey all speical people need a hobby!!! :lol: :bash: :loser:

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JUDE
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Post by JUDE »

Bill , this post about a "cold nose dog" was made by you on Thur.Nov 16th 2006 (about 2 weeks after you registered) :
bill (flint river ) wrote:some dogs just have a better noise then others, run him by himself for a while to make sure he isnt just mouthy because of the pressure, i have seen alot of young dogs get blowed up because of running to much in a pac that pushes real hard.


do not shock him if he does have a cold noise on wabbits, u will grow to love him when the condtion are tough and he is the only dog to get a wabbit moving.
Bill I may be an idiot but after one year on these boards you should know that there is no I in NOSE :roll: :-o :shock: I honestly thought you were doing that "no"i"se" thing on purpose until I found the above post :lol:

Bill , for the rest of your life everytime you look in the mirror and see your NOSE I expect you'll think of the Jude boys :angryfire: .

bill (flint river )
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Post by bill (flint river ) »

i am glad u can search, but look, i am saying the same thing know as then, and wow u have me on grammer. STFW. but hey smart guy u keep shocking beagles for running a rabbit. :moon:

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Pike Ridge Beagles
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Post by Pike Ridge Beagles »

LOL, never shocked one for running a _rabbit either.

gus
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Post by gus »

NorWester wrote: Gus wrote,
If the first dog barks on a cold line and the second doesn't bark but they both work the line with dedication until the wabbit is up and then the second hound opens, how can you say that one has a better nose.

It appears that most Hare Hunters like a dog that hunts for a cold line and tracks until the hare is up and moving.
I see that happen from time to time, however what you usually miss is that the dog that is opening on the cold track was also fanning the track with dedication in the same manner (as the second hound in your scenario) before he opened at a time when the others wouldn't pay any attention to the track at all. If I lived in an area where the scenting was ideal I would certainly have no use for a dog that is known to run a cold track in good conditions either. However, that isn't the case and if I was bent on feeding dogs with correct mouths, using the definitions most of you provide I would have no hope of running a hare during the winter here. Fair weather running and so called correct mouth go hand in hand nicely, but if you want to run hare in the north, you're gonna have to get some real nose power and there is a price to be paid with that. ;)
Norwester I am agreeing with you. I acknowledge that I know nothing of the requirements for running Hare in inclement weather. However, I don't believe that mouth or lack of it has anything to do with nose power. Dogs with a great nose can run mute or a mouthy SOB doesn't need to smell anything to bark. I have never seen a beagle that had a great snow nose attempt to run cottontails in the deep south. I owned a few that were from lines that were reputed to have great/snow noses that couldn't circle a cottontail. As I said from reading other threads on this subject it seems that all the hare hunters line up on the side of cold trailers. Most of the cottontail hunters abhor a dog that barks a lot before the rabbit is up. That doesn't make either group stupid. It indicates to me that the best way to be successful in pursuit of different game in different areas with vastly different conditions requires a different style beagle.

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Pike Ridge Beagles
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Post by Pike Ridge Beagles »

gus wrote:
NorWester wrote: Gus wrote,
If the first dog barks on a cold line and the second doesn't bark but they both work the line with dedication until the wabbit is up and then the second hound opens, how can you say that one has a better nose.

It appears that most Hare Hunters like a dog that hunts for a cold line and tracks until the hare is up and moving.
I see that happen from time to time, however what you usually miss is that the dog that is opening on the cold track was also fanning the track with dedication in the same manner (as the second hound in your scenario) before he opened at a time when the others wouldn't pay any attention to the track at all. If I lived in an area where the scenting was ideal I would certainly have no use for a dog that is known to run a cold track in good conditions either. However, that isn't the case and if I was bent on feeding dogs with correct mouths, using the definitions most of you provide I would have no hope of running a hare during the winter here. Fair weather running and so called correct mouth go hand in hand nicely, but if you want to run hare in the north, you're gonna have to get some real nose power and there is a price to be paid with that. ;)
Norwester I am agreeing with you. I acknowledge that I know nothing of the requirements for running Hare in inclement weather. However, I don't believe that mouth or lack of it has anything to do with nose power. Dogs with a great nose can run mute or a mouthy SOB doesn't need to smell anything to bark. I have never seen a beagle that had a great snow nose attempt to run cottontails in the deep south. I owned a few that were from lines that were reputed to have great/snow noses that couldn't circle a cottontail. As I said from reading other threads on this subject it seems that all the hare hunters line up on the side of cold trailers. Most of the cottontail hunters abhor a dog that barks a lot before the wabbit is up. That doesn't make either group stupid. It indicates to me that the best way to be successful in pursuit of different game in different areas with vastly different conditions requires a different style beagle.
+1 You hit the nail on the head. Depends on geography. If you live in the middle like me then one big nosed dog in the pack is nice. Again. I prefer them more to the tight side but I don't hunt in 20 inches of snow during gun season either, at least not regularly. :lol:
Everyone has made good points and this is a really good thread. That's what keeps me coming back to this board.
Last, a babbler and a big nosed dog are two different things in my opinion. A babbler throws the pack off and only produces a _rabbit on rare occasions. A big nosed dog gets the bunny going 9 out of 10 times, but barks earlier than the tight mouthed dogs in the pack.
JMHO of course. :D

J. JUDE
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Post by J. JUDE »

For one thing the man that ask the question don;t live up north, A dog can cold trail with out mouthing off,Bill we know more about a dog than you;ll ever know.and you better buy you a dictionary. :lol: :lol:







JAMIE,

NorWester
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Post by NorWester »

However, I don't believe that mouth or lack of it has anything to do with nose power. Dogs with a great nose can run mute or a mouthy SOB doesn't need to smell anything to bark.
You know, there is an easy way to measure nose power and it will have nothing to do with how or when a dog barks. Catch a cabbit...........turn him loose and wait a while. Put a dog on the line and see if it can run the babbit. The hound that you can wait the longest on who can still run the bunny has the strongest nose. ;) Generally speaking however when a hound calls on a line we assume he can smell the dabbit, if he doesn't we usually assume he can't. These are of course just generalized parameters and there are of course extremes each way, like a dog that just barks because he believes a habbit is in the woods or the hound that will only open when staring down the rosebud on the backend of a running fabbit. Keep in mind also that the dogs that I have that will open on a old/ cold track will only do so in good scenting conditions which doesn't happen often up here. In typical winter conditions like we have here right now, the dogs don't cold track much because they can't smell the old/cold tracks. Try to bend your mind around a hare zipping by, your hound hits the line two minutes later but can't run the track because he cant smell it. Like I wrote before, there is a price to be paid for nose power and showing "extra mouth" is "generally" one of the traits that will be on the bill.
It's not that life is short......it's just that we're dead for such a long, long time...

bill (flint river )
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Post by bill (flint river ) »

J. JUDE wrote:For one thing the man that ask the question don;t live up north, A dog can cold trail with out mouthing off,Bill we know more about a dog than you;ll ever know.and you better buy you a dictionary. :lol: :lol:







JAMIE,
u may want to look your responce over before u talk about grammer.

i am sorry that i disagreed with the mighty jude twins, and there special powers of shocking a beagle running a rabbit. u may have some thing with that. what i am not sure. this started about the lack of brains claimed by one and shocking a beagle for running a rabbit( i still dont get that) but who am i to judge the training practise of the jude twins. and to claim how well one hound can smell a track over the other is true. the amount of scent one hound filter can be greater then the next, does this mean he has no brains. NO, do guys that have no clue what it takes to run in crap weather understand this MOST DO. u 2 may want to step off the mountain and get some freash air, or better yet stop sniffing gas fumes. kill's brain cells. LMAO

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Post by J. JUDE »

Do you even know what a BABBLING dog is if so act like it. :roll: BILL, :roll:

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Post by sanfordssj »

Pike Ridge Beagles wrote:LOL, never shocked one for running a _rabbit either.

It's hard to shock them off rabbits when you are always shocking them off deer and fox! :shock:
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TomMN
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Post by TomMN »

This question gets brought up on here about every six months and it always gets the same tired old responses. I've never been one to go along with what everyone says. I only believe what I see and learn for myself (life would probably be a lot easier for me if I would listen to people that are smarter than me once in a while :) ). Here's some things about this subject that I have learned on my own. Most of it is different than what 'yall are sayin.

Some dogs with lots of nose don't bark much on track.

Some dogs that bark a lot are just mouthy.

Lots of nose and lots of mouth don't always go together.

When it comes to mouth and cold trailing I pay attention to what a dog's pack mates think of them. If old cold trailer opens and no one pays him any atention, he has too much mouth and not enough nose. If old bawler opens and the rest of the dogs race to get to him, he knows what he is doing. Dogs can judge each other much better than a human with a rule book can.

Most dogs cold trail more as they get older. They also get better at it.

I don't know how a dog knows if a track is worth running, but I do know that SOME dogs just know. Sometimes they are wrong but a good share of the time they are right. They also seem to know which way the rabbit is going on the first track they smell more often than not. I can't explain it.

Dogs that do well in bad conditions do even better in good conditions.

A dog that can't run a cottontail well will never be much good at running a hare when the going gets tough. "Hare dogs" may or may not be any good for hare hunting.

And last but not least, speed is the HARDEST thing there is to breed into a dog. Over running, rough, track switching dogs are not fast. Don't believe me, try waiting for one to bring the same hare back.

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TC
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Post by TC »

TomMN Wrote
When it comes to mouth and cold trailing I pay attention to what a dog's pack mates think of them. If old cold trailer opens and no one pays him any atention, he has too much mouth and not enough nose. If old bawler opens and the rest of the dogs race to get to him, he knows what he is doing. Dogs can judge each other much better than a human with a rule book can.
:nod:
Well Put.... Well put....
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bill (flint river )
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Post by bill (flint river ) »

:argue: :censored: :bash: , this is getting old, tom u have really no diffrent views on a cold nose hound then the rest. some hounds a just tight, some are just babbling for one reason or another, and some can advance a old line and get a new jump. so your views really are not diffrent. as for the cotton tail and hare deal. i have seen diffrent.

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