1wish 1 cross what dogs and why?
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
Guess I'll let the cat out of the bag. I do have a female out of abshires Junie with a cross of Chime on the bottom that will be bred to Buzz when the time comes and she's ready.
If you don't breed for hunt sell you're beagles and buy a POODLE AND SOME PERFUME! GUN DOG'S that's all that matters. The rest will fall in place.
Murphy's Buddy to My Dixie female. RUN TO CATCH.
Last edited by tommyg on Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. "Benjamin Franklin" 1759
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. "Benjamin Franklin" 1759
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bill (flint river )
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i see alot of guys saying Mt. Zion Pete !!! i would like to know what kind of dog this was. i am guessing he was welped some time in the mid 50's.
looking at dingus pedigree there is only one cross of pete. so by saying all roads led to pete is a huge state ment... does any one have any info on this hound?
looking at dingus pedigree there is only one cross of pete. so by saying all roads led to pete is a huge state ment... does any one have any info on this hound?
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Alabama John
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Bill
Saw Pete run in the early or mid 50's. I think he was born in the mid to late 40's and was a little past his prime when I saw him. He was slow, but right on the track. AKC Field trial dog, setting the standard for the wave of the 50's and beyond for AKC Brace which undrstand was the only AKC field trials at the time. Won a lot, and was campaigned a whole lot. One of few dogs brought down South for folks to bred to and order pups.
Remember folks didn't travel far to breed back then and a big name dog seen and read about in the magazine like him was very rare in most places. Drew big crowds to see him demonstrate his running. Seems like the stud fee was $25.00 which was big at the time.
Folks scattered out and beat the bushes til they jumped a rabbit and his handler put him on the rabbit (AKC Brace mathod), never saw him hunt.
Saw Pete run in the early or mid 50's. I think he was born in the mid to late 40's and was a little past his prime when I saw him. He was slow, but right on the track. AKC Field trial dog, setting the standard for the wave of the 50's and beyond for AKC Brace which undrstand was the only AKC field trials at the time. Won a lot, and was campaigned a whole lot. One of few dogs brought down South for folks to bred to and order pups.
Remember folks didn't travel far to breed back then and a big name dog seen and read about in the magazine like him was very rare in most places. Drew big crowds to see him demonstrate his running. Seems like the stud fee was $25.00 which was big at the time.
Folks scattered out and beat the bushes til they jumped a rabbit and his handler put him on the rabbit (AKC Brace mathod), never saw him hunt.
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bill (flint river )
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MasonsBeagles
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John I think you got the wrong Pete on that.
I have an Old Hounds and Hunting Magazine from May 1957. It has Pete winning a trial Northern Michigan Hare Association. Don Larsen Secretary. Judges were Joe Corullo, Al Mortier, John Bishop and Gardner Bess.
From the research that I have done and hope this will open up some more information from people that might have additional info.
This is the information I have on him and always welcome more.
Pete was a strong built 15" hound. Hit hard with endless bottom. More of a run to catch type than a brace. Probably more conservative than todays wind splitters, but was not a brace hound. Not necceassarily a run the total front on a pack but would just dominate a line, and come on through. Came out of a check extremely hard. (Ex. I have heard stories of Pete killing one of Homer Larmay's Gyps while running. Hit her broadside coming out of a check and broke her back. I think it was Lakeside Snowflakes Dam, LarMay Toastie.) Homer Larmay was quoted that when he came off of Pete the tighter he bred him the better the hounds he seemed to get. Know most of this information is by doing research through other houndsmen that keyed off of the dog from years ago. As I was not even a thought when Pete was alive. I think he passed away in the early 60s.
When I say all roads lead to Pete it amazing that when researching most of todays Hare Bred hounds that the Pete will more than likely pop up at least once but more times than not he will be in there mulitple times. Branko has had a tremendous influence on alot of todays hounds. It is rare to go back 5+generations and not see Branko's name. That is based of mulitple different crossess of this and that. But to see one dog is amazing. As I have said in the past I research generations on hounds and when I see strong bred Pete hounds I take a closer look. Now the arguement can be made that him living that far back he doesnt influence today. But when you can take a pedigree and dissect it and calculate the genetic contribution and still coming out today with hounds that are the equivilent of being direct grandpups. Id say he still has to be influencing.
At the least it is a feel good thing anyway. The dogs I run may not be the best in the world but they are a line that I know and they suit me so I keep on Keeping ON.....lol
I have an Old Hounds and Hunting Magazine from May 1957. It has Pete winning a trial Northern Michigan Hare Association. Don Larsen Secretary. Judges were Joe Corullo, Al Mortier, John Bishop and Gardner Bess.
From the research that I have done and hope this will open up some more information from people that might have additional info.
This is the information I have on him and always welcome more.
Pete was a strong built 15" hound. Hit hard with endless bottom. More of a run to catch type than a brace. Probably more conservative than todays wind splitters, but was not a brace hound. Not necceassarily a run the total front on a pack but would just dominate a line, and come on through. Came out of a check extremely hard. (Ex. I have heard stories of Pete killing one of Homer Larmay's Gyps while running. Hit her broadside coming out of a check and broke her back. I think it was Lakeside Snowflakes Dam, LarMay Toastie.) Homer Larmay was quoted that when he came off of Pete the tighter he bred him the better the hounds he seemed to get. Know most of this information is by doing research through other houndsmen that keyed off of the dog from years ago. As I was not even a thought when Pete was alive. I think he passed away in the early 60s.
When I say all roads lead to Pete it amazing that when researching most of todays Hare Bred hounds that the Pete will more than likely pop up at least once but more times than not he will be in there mulitple times. Branko has had a tremendous influence on alot of todays hounds. It is rare to go back 5+generations and not see Branko's name. That is based of mulitple different crossess of this and that. But to see one dog is amazing. As I have said in the past I research generations on hounds and when I see strong bred Pete hounds I take a closer look. Now the arguement can be made that him living that far back he doesnt influence today. But when you can take a pedigree and dissect it and calculate the genetic contribution and still coming out today with hounds that are the equivilent of being direct grandpups. Id say he still has to be influencing.
At the least it is a feel good thing anyway. The dogs I run may not be the best in the world but they are a line that I know and they suit me so I keep on Keeping ON.....lol
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SMITTY1233
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Alabama John
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Not wanting to argue, but, it was the same dog.
AKC Brace wa all there was and these other trials, UKC Beagles, ARHA and others came along much later.
I agree AKC dogs ran faster in the 40's, but the trend was moving fast to run slower and closer into the 50's and onward to today.
Folks were looking for dogs that threw slower, not faster. A dog advertised in Hounds and Hunting was for the improving of AKC brace.
Grade dogs were a different story as they ALL were used for hunting as there were no trials they could enter.
Folks kept AKC to trial and grade to hunt with, me too.
Pete was what I would call a tweener, he was between the quicker dogs of 40's and was dominant in the breeding of the slower AKC brace dogs that won the AKC trials.
If he was all that fast, the Brace folks would not have bred to him and he would of not become a famous stud, as that was what they and the AKC trials and judges were getting away from. Look way back at the brace dogs of todays pedigrees, not just the AKC fast dogs of today and see how he influenced them too.
I think if a dog broke another dogs back, coming out of a check, there was something bad wrong with that dogs back.
I have seen and owned many beagles and have run with thousands of others and never seen a dog do that. Anyone of you readers ever seen that either?
Makes a good story though!
AKC Brace wa all there was and these other trials, UKC Beagles, ARHA and others came along much later.
I agree AKC dogs ran faster in the 40's, but the trend was moving fast to run slower and closer into the 50's and onward to today.
Folks were looking for dogs that threw slower, not faster. A dog advertised in Hounds and Hunting was for the improving of AKC brace.
Grade dogs were a different story as they ALL were used for hunting as there were no trials they could enter.
Folks kept AKC to trial and grade to hunt with, me too.
Pete was what I would call a tweener, he was between the quicker dogs of 40's and was dominant in the breeding of the slower AKC brace dogs that won the AKC trials.
If he was all that fast, the Brace folks would not have bred to him and he would of not become a famous stud, as that was what they and the AKC trials and judges were getting away from. Look way back at the brace dogs of todays pedigrees, not just the AKC fast dogs of today and see how he influenced them too.
I think if a dog broke another dogs back, coming out of a check, there was something bad wrong with that dogs back.
I have seen and owned many beagles and have run with thousands of others and never seen a dog do that. Anyone of you readers ever seen that either?
Makes a good story though!
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Larry G
John, you are no match for some of these boys! I have a friend who could probably run with them, though.... One dog I heard a lot about from the 50's era was Jimmy's Little Sportsman... was he really all that good? And if anyone on this board knows Beal's (Bill's?) Deacon I guess it would be you. Might as well kick in Wilcliffe Boogie too but that was way on back there... you have probaby heard some stories, since he was one of the most influential sires in beagle history.
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Alabama John
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Larry
I heard of them but don't remember seeing them run. As today, certain lines were more popular in different areas. Maybe the difference in Judges preferences? Remember Nu-Ra Buddy and Pageline Parsons?
As you know, AKC Champion dogs couldn't compete any more after making Champion which was the ultimate, so they were hauled around to trials, sometimes several to a truck, and ran for demonstration after the trials were over for the day. Many folks brought bitches to trials and bred them right there.
I remember Boogie well, he and Grays Linesman were the Big Time stuff back then.
Also anything going back to Yellow Creek Sport.
The dog talk was the same as on here, except in person or in a group, not on computers.lol
Some still wanted to whip the other one and had to be broke apart as folks saw dogs differently, just as today.
I personally liked the Pleasant Run dogs, especially Postman for trialing.
I don't know of one AKC dog that was famous back them that I would even comsider breeding to if it was alive today. I'm happy there are AKC dogs that today win in ARHA LP, back then none of them I saw could, only grade dogs. There are some grade dogs back then that were popular with hunters I would breed to today.
I still have old friends you couldn't give a AKC dog to because of what they saw in the old 50's and 60's Champion dogs.
I heard of them but don't remember seeing them run. As today, certain lines were more popular in different areas. Maybe the difference in Judges preferences? Remember Nu-Ra Buddy and Pageline Parsons?
As you know, AKC Champion dogs couldn't compete any more after making Champion which was the ultimate, so they were hauled around to trials, sometimes several to a truck, and ran for demonstration after the trials were over for the day. Many folks brought bitches to trials and bred them right there.
I remember Boogie well, he and Grays Linesman were the Big Time stuff back then.
Also anything going back to Yellow Creek Sport.
The dog talk was the same as on here, except in person or in a group, not on computers.lol
Some still wanted to whip the other one and had to be broke apart as folks saw dogs differently, just as today.
I personally liked the Pleasant Run dogs, especially Postman for trialing.
I don't know of one AKC dog that was famous back them that I would even comsider breeding to if it was alive today. I'm happy there are AKC dogs that today win in ARHA LP, back then none of them I saw could, only grade dogs. There are some grade dogs back then that were popular with hunters I would breed to today.
I still have old friends you couldn't give a AKC dog to because of what they saw in the old 50's and 60's Champion dogs.
Last edited by Alabama John on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Larry G
John wrote
heard of them but don't remember seeing them run. As today, certain lines were more popular in different areas. Maybe the difference in Judges preferences? Remember Nu-Ra Buddy and Pageline Parsons?
I've heard of Parson and Buddy but never saw either as I didn't start attending trials until about 1969 in NC. It's interesting that another Buddy, Williams Pointline Buddy I believe, was the sire of the famous Gay Baker. Pointline Buddy was a brace hound, G. grandsone of Nu Ra Buddy. Nu Ra was by Banker which is probably the most famous of the Pleasant Run dogs, with Postman, Diplomat et al.
I noticed in looking up Old Boogie's pedigree that he had about as much "Concord" blood as Yellow Creek. I'd never heard of the Concord dogs.
I understand that down your way the Nance's Bo Knows Rabbit bloodline is popular. I have some of that and it ain't too bad.
heard of them but don't remember seeing them run. As today, certain lines were more popular in different areas. Maybe the difference in Judges preferences? Remember Nu-Ra Buddy and Pageline Parsons?
I've heard of Parson and Buddy but never saw either as I didn't start attending trials until about 1969 in NC. It's interesting that another Buddy, Williams Pointline Buddy I believe, was the sire of the famous Gay Baker. Pointline Buddy was a brace hound, G. grandsone of Nu Ra Buddy. Nu Ra was by Banker which is probably the most famous of the Pleasant Run dogs, with Postman, Diplomat et al.
I noticed in looking up Old Boogie's pedigree that he had about as much "Concord" blood as Yellow Creek. I'd never heard of the Concord dogs.
I understand that down your way the Nance's Bo Knows Rabbit bloodline is popular. I have some of that and it ain't too bad.
I too have heard all the stories about Pete but John is the only person telling those stories that actualy hunted with him so I will believe what he says. I did read Homer Larmay's account about how Pete hit the female when she stopped to pick up the check and broke her back. To be honest, the first thing I thought was I would like to have had that female. It sounds like she was running the front and she was the only one to stop when she ran out of scent.
I like to study those old pedigrees as much as anyone but when it is all said and done, unless you hunted with the dogs in the pedigree, some of their littermates and several of their pups, the pedigree doesn't help you at all.
If I could make one cross it would be LaDue's Cider and LaDue's Sandy. This cross was made seven years ago and produced the best dog I ever owned. I sure would like to have another one.
I like to study those old pedigrees as much as anyone but when it is all said and done, unless you hunted with the dogs in the pedigree, some of their littermates and several of their pups, the pedigree doesn't help you at all.
If I could make one cross it would be LaDue's Cider and LaDue's Sandy. This cross was made seven years ago and produced the best dog I ever owned. I sure would like to have another one.
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bill (flint river )
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John,
i would like to thank you again. i would also like to site and talk dogs for hours with you. When i asked the question about pete i was hoping just to get what people read about him, but to actualy find a man who seen him run was behond any thing i could have hoped for.
now in your travales have u ever hunted or watch one of willets patch hounds ?
thanks again
bill
i would like to thank you again. i would also like to site and talk dogs for hours with you. When i asked the question about pete i was hoping just to get what people read about him, but to actualy find a man who seen him run was behond any thing i could have hoped for.
now in your travales have u ever hunted or watch one of willets patch hounds ?
thanks again
bill