Jumpdogs

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:36 am

Well, for the most part ALL of you are describing GOOD JUMP DOGS, not GREAT ones. There is a hugh difference between a great jump dog and a hard hunter. Hard hunters product game because of hard work. Hunting is a trainable attribute. I agree that pups should be exposed to rabbits before there are 12 weeks old. Since trying this ALL of my pups have been very hard hunters and some very good jump dogs. I sold one to a guy last year, he and his 3 buddies all with dogs hunted openning day last year. At the end of the day 12 rabbits jumped, 7 by the dog he got from me. The next day 7 rabbits jumped, 5 by the same dog. This was a very good jump dog but still not great.

I have owned a GREAT JUMP DOG, 20 years ago. She would wind the rabbits, like a bird dog. When she opened, take your safety off, a bunny was about to appear. I later owned her dam, a great dog, hard hunter and a good jump dog, but not a great jump dog. I hunted many years over her sire, great dog, but not a great jump dog. I owned the litter mate sister, a very good dog, great hunt and a good jump dog. I breed her several times and NEVER produced another like her.

She didn't start until she was a year old. Not her fault, just not enough rabbits around to get her started. She back tracked the rabbit she jumped all the way back to the bed after the kill. She only did that in her first year. For some she might not have made it past that first year. There is not a dog in my kennel I wouldn't trade to have her back. When you've seen it, you know you've seen something very special.

So, IT AIN"T GENETIC! It ain't TRANING! It ain't PEN RASIED!

It is when the stars all line up correctly, someone occasionaly will be blessed and luckly enough to get one of these very special dogs, and NO REASONABLE RABBIT HUNTER WILL EVER SELL ONE, SO STOP LOOKING!

gus · Post by **gus** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:24 am

Bob, how does your experience prove it is not genetics? What percentage of Field Champions when bred FC to FC produce a Field Champion? How many beaglers that you know are breeding for dogs with the brains and desire to jump rabbits. Most seem to breed for the lead dog or the best line straddler. While every rabbit hunter seems to enjoy jump dogs, there are a lot of hunters that don't know they exist. In some areas there are so many rabbits jump dogs would add little to the hunt. In addition, Trialers put little emphasis on jumping abitlity. Many beaglers just breed for the latest fad Field Champion.

crewchf · Post by **crewchf** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:47 am

You can breed all the FC's in America, if the pups don't get into the hands of people who love this sport and are willing to put the effort in it and trial,,,, It's Over!!!!!

Crew Chief

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:21 pm

gus,
I think you missed my point. I do believe that if you breed FCs to FCs you increase your chance of producing FCs, but that's NOT the topic. Brains and desire has nothing to do with producing a great jump dog. It will produce a great hunting dog that may be a decent jump dog, but again that's not the topic.

Why is it NOT genetics? Because, I owned the Dam for 7 years, I hunted with the sire for 10 years, I owned the sister from cradel to grave as well as the Super jump dog, I bred her to excellent dogs and never produced anything remotely resembling my Super jump dog. She didn't get it from her parents and she didn't pass it on, therefore NOT GENETICS. It was the alignment of the stars.

Everthing you state, pertains to a hard hunting, super hunting dogs, but NOT a super jump dog. This confusion leads me to believe that most have never seem one, cause once you do you'll know what I mean.

I've hunted with 15 - 20 outstanding hounds down at one time. Remember the wheel barrel full of rabbits, those 68 rabbits were taken in front of my super jump dog plus the other 20 dogs. At the end of the day, one dog has jumped over 50% of the rabbits, that's a super jump dog. The other 20 dogs were hard hunting like you describe. Remember the old man in the picture, he had owned over 5000 beagles in his life. He often talked about Sqeaky, his Super jump dog which was gone before me. You are lucky to have ever owned one, much less more. JMHO

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:34 pm

Darkcorner, after re-reading your topic, here my submission.

She made it look easy, often not going into the briars unless she knew a rabbit was there. Absolutely correct mouth, take it to the bank, NEVER an unaccounted for bark. Slow and steady, not really a hard hunter. Her sister was a hard hunter and jumped her share. No pens ever. Didn't start until she was a year old, her sister also. Seldom run except during hunting season. They were handled allot when they were pups. They had a bad case of worms when I got them, which may have deformed them later. She was very tenacious, refused to be caught, therefore I named her TROUBLE. She was very leggy, a 12" body on 14" legs. She was fast! She was a grade dog but her grandparents were all AKC. Hunters didn't care about the papers and neither did I.

gus · Post by **gus** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:34 pm

If Trialers were judging the complete beagle, one that would hunt, get into the brush, circle the rabbit, and run all day every day then more could afford to Trial. I know there are some areas where hunting dogs are trialed. But the majority, if a dog, even though he is domianting his pack, will be picked up if he is not a particular style. IMO, if all organizations would adopt the ARHA Progressive pack rule that a dog had to jump and circle his rabbit solo within a time frame, before it earned his championship, some of the problems would be diminished.

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:51 pm

gus,
I absolutely agree. I do not trial my best hunting dog, not because he won't fit the standard, he will. It's because I don't like the format. So I drive three times as far or more to run, in a format that I like. It's not like you get picked up for too much hunt, you don't. Just you don't get credit, and you should. He is a hard hunting, very good jump dog. I hunt all of my dogs and all of my dogs have hunt. I don't currently own or know of a super jump dog.

mud · Post by **mud** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:10 pm

HattererasBob,I agree on your assesment of a jump dog.I owned 2 outstanding ones in over 30 years of hunting both grade females.I don't expect to ever have their equal again. Dogs I own now are above average jump dogs.Hunt good ran a track to suit me .They all can be called to put on a rabbit.They run no trash.However I don't have a great jump dog on the place.I have to jump rabbbits by committee.Different dogs jump more on some days than others.Its been years since I seen a super jump dog.Just my thoughts

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:20 pm

mud,
Did you breed either of you super jump dogs? What did you get?
Bob

MDH68 · Post by **MDH68** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:57 pm

I beleive its mostly genetics. The nose and brains make a good jump dog.Both of these I beleive are passed on. A truly good jump dog can work up a older track and produce the rabbit. Any dog that can circle a rabbit can run a track thats 5 minutes old. Where I am from (Michigan) in January rabbit sightings can become scarce. But a good jump dog can get a rabbit up and going thats several hours old,such as a feeder track from the night before. A lesser dog will run right over the top of these tracks. The dog also must have brains enough to now if the track is runnable, and if so know when to use its mouth. Both of these traits are passed on, but also the hound must be nurtured or put on the ground to bring out its nature.

Mike

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:31 pm

Great jump dogs are like great women -------- Seldom Seen

mud · Post by **mud** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:28 pm

HattersBob,bred one of the dogs.she had 2 pups.I put tons of time in on them.Both duds compared to her.Both would run and jump an ocassional rabbit.Go figureLOL

mud · Post by **mud** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:32 pm

Jimmie so right you are friend.The quickest thing that made a liar out of me are dogs and women.Thanks for getting back in touch with me....

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:54 pm

Bob,
I have to say that I disagree with you on one topic. I think if you breed brains and hunt you are definitely increasing your chances to reproduce a "great jumpdog". The stars didn't line up by accident. Bye the way, you have an open invitation to come run and hunt with Greg and me. We will take ol' Biscuit and any other dogs you want to put on the ground, maybe she will bring back some memories of your old Trouble dog. It sounds like they have similar characteristics.

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:54 pm

HatterasBob, If hunt can be improved by introducing rabbits at an early age, I want to try it. How did you go about this, a starting pen?