You Get What You Pay For

MSU Dawg · Post by **MSU Dawg** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:15 am

I guess I am lucky b/c down here in the 'Sip one can get AKC pups off well bred bird dogs & Labs for about $300. Grade beagle pups are about $50 & AKC beagle pups are about $125.

It sounds like your friend bought a quality bitch. She was already titled out & actually has something to show for the investment. But what about these ppl asking big bucks for pups or dogs of questionable quality???

Wilkerson Boys · Post by **Wilkerson Boys** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:41 am

http://www.ukcdogs.com/breeds/guardiand ... .std.shtml

Don't hold me to eating people now! These dogs are not bred to eat people but probably could. Just mixing with you fellers.

Wayne

http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/95568.html You can click on the pics to enlarge them.

MDH68 · Post by **MDH68** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:44 am

If I was going to buy a beagle for a large sum of money. I would absolutely do my homework. I would get references about the sellers dogs and also about the seller. I would definetly watch the dog run a few times. If I liked what I saw and decided to purchase. I would make an agreement that I could bring the hound back after a few weeks if I didnt like it, after spending time with the hound. If the seller is honest and the hound is worthy of the price the seller has placed on it. He should have no problems with that arangement. If the seller says no to the trial period. That would send up a red flag to me. If your willing to shell out your hard earned cash without doing some legwork. Than you are just as much at fault as the seller.

Mike

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:50 am

O.k. folks, a beagle is a hunting dog bred for circling their quarry to the hunter. Rabbits right? Maybe someone can explain to me what justifies the difference in any untitled dog that can consistantly circle a rabbit to the gun priced at $500.00 and any untitled dog priced at $1500.00+? Coon hounds, squirrel dogs and bird dogs need to do more than track their quarry, which by the way do not instinctively run in a circle as a rabbit does. Coon hounds and squirrel dogs not only need to possess tracking and or sighting ability but also treeing ability as well. Bird dogs need tracking, pointing, holding, flushing retrieving and many more characterisics that a beagle does not need in the pursuit of their quarry.
I'm really curious from a strictly hunter point of view as to what objective characteristics would prompt me to want to spend $1500+ for a rabbit dog when the ones I have for $250.00 to $500.00 put meat on the table consistantly?

Tim H · Post by **Tim H** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:31 pm

Wardog, your post points out that nothing would make you do it because your not coming from an objective point. Your looking at this from what you would be willing to do.

Objectively, someone would spend more for a dog that produces more rabbits through better hunt, better line control, which leads to more circled rabbits and more meat on the table. Also, if someone as a hunter wanted to breed his own dogs to replace dogs as they get older then they would want to consider the quality of the dog they have for breeding.

MSU Dawg · Post by **MSU Dawg** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:33 pm

lol, just about any good sized dog could eat you! Check this one out:

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3378490/detail.html

And this dog would be a dead dog if this happened in my household!!!

http://www.cirp.org/news/vanguard01-03-04/

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:42 pm

Looks to me like a dog producing more rabbits through better hunt or better line control are both in the eye of the beholder and thus subjective. By the way I doubt better line control leads to more circled rabbits or more meat on the table. The object of the game of running rabbits with beagles is to circle the rabbit to the hunter so what makes one who consistantly circles rabbits to the hunter worth 3 to 4 times as much as another one who does the same?

Boomerx · Post by **Boomerx** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:09 pm

I'd say that if two hounds can consistantly circle a rabbit or hare to the gunner, and one of them does it in a much faster manner (while still maintaining similar line control), the faster one must be the better hound of the two (for both gunning and trialing). If you were running with a buddy and his hound ran like this and consistantly beat yours, wouldn't you think he had the better hound? and if you were looking to purchase one of them, wouldn't the better one be worth a bigger price?

mud · Post by **mud** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:34 pm

i have to agree with warddog and others.I have owned dogs for 30 years.Had 1 outstanding several decent ones and my share of sorry ones.As a younger man I ran everywhere to find the type hound that suited me.My running partner gave me some simple advice when I steer from it I usually end up on the short end of the stick.First he said if a hound is outstanding it will need no advertising.Word of mouth a friend or hunting Buddy will own it.Second he said when you look at dogs priced 4 and 5 times higher than what you pay for yours are they truly 4 or 5 times better for the money.In my case they never were.Just my 2 cents worth.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:10 pm

Well, so far I've yet to see anyone explain this to me. As for the faster being better, NO way will I buy that either. We have two seperate packs of dogs we run. One pack of 3 dogs are fast and furious and can smoke a rabbit and the other two we run together are medium to upper medium at best. Both packs will and do bring ole Mr. cottontail to the gun but both are different in their styles in doing so. Makes no difference to us as we just love to hear a good race and see the rabbits circle back to us whether we shoot it or not is of little importance. Do we consider one pack better than the other because they circle the rabbit faster...NO, because both packs do what the object of the game is and do it each time out. I've seen some talking about the price of gas, equipment and on and on but folks if you're runnin rabbit dogs you're paying for all those things whether you're huntin a field champion or a collie. Now, if you're saying that you want to sell a dog to recoup some of your money, I can buy that story but I still won't pay you $1500.00+ for any beagle unless it is a solid gold statute weighing about the same as I do and I'll tell you I weigh alot.

JPAT · Post by **JPAT** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:03 pm

It all depends on what you are wanting the dog for. Dog #1 can be an AKC well bred beagle for $1000. Dog #2 could be a grade dog for $200. Both can circle a rabbit to the gun consistantly. Would a meat hunter want to spend $1000 on dog #1? No....it would make no sense when dog #2 would provide him the results he is looking for. Would someone who trials evey weekend be willing to spend $1000 on dog #1? Sure...Try driving 4 to 5 hours to a trial and spending $100 in gas, $40 for a motel, $25 for food, $20 entry fees etc. and have your $200 dog who can circle a rabbit get picked up in 5 minutes. Would it be worth spending $1000 for a dog who can do it the right way with speed and control and have a dog that can compete??? You bet!! And you cant say there are plenty of dogs who can consistantly compete and place in AKC for sale for $200 or $300. The demand for this dog pushes up the price. It all depends on what you want the dog for. Just my thoughts. Josh

Blue Bandit · Post by **Blue Bandit** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:15 pm

i will say this jpat and jeremy do have the real deal dogs. i wouldn't want to draw out against them.

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:01 am

Guys sorry I haven't been on my own post. I have been taking a train for Norfolk Southern from Louisville to Danville and back. What most people don't understand about spending good money for a good dog is this. A dog that is a Champion, Like a AKC Field Champion. Lets just say Brankos Hard Rock. Mark Ross has probably made over 30,000.00 + in the 13 years he has been alive. I'm talking stud fees, Pups and frozen nut. If you bought that dog as a AKC Field Champion at 2 years old for 3,000.00 dollars and profit 27,000.00 + is he worth it. Look at Prime Time. He was five when he made Champion and look at the money he is brought in. Melsons Ranger Dan, Turbo, Heil Prop, Ace In The Hole, ECT. These dogs have brought in the money. AKC does matter. You can't just run any dog in AKC But you can in NKC,UKC and PKC. Akc champion is the NBA of Beagling. If you are just a Rabbit Hunter Don't pay big money. If you are a serious trialer you better have the best and the best don't come cheap. I will show all my dogs in the field and if you don't think they are worth it don't buy it but I will promise you he will SELL! If you buy a running dog from hubertskennel he will have the tools to be a winner. I make no promiss on pups. This is not a sells pitch, I do what the Lord God would want me to do. I will not Lie about any of my dogs and that is a promise. If I put a dog on the net for 400.00 or lower it is a pup or he will make someone a good dog. If he is more than he can win.Jeremy

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:23 am

I trial more NKC than AKC because there are so many more and closer hunts. A NKC Champion is good and usually takes a fair dog or a good name. If you go to most NKC Hunts you can usually can tell who will have a dog in the finals. Greensburg Frank Fulk, Bardstown, The Ashbaws or how ever you spell ther name. The best dog usually don't win at there clubs, the pencil does. In AKC I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is less likely. You have Two or three judges, judging all the cast. Then they pick what dogs did the best to them. My dog didn't get brought back to the winners pack in the one AKC Trial I went to. Was i cheated? No my dog was not. He got beat! The Five or Six Trials I went to Bardstown and Greensburg Did my dog get beat. In the six trials I have a 4TH and 3RD. I should have a 1st and a 1st or 2nd. I should have made it past the first round on four of the six times I was at Each club. I was Cheated!! They think it will stop me from comming but it won't. They will get there in the end. I am a judge, and I am honest and fair. The best dog will come back in every cast I judge, not the name of the person. The dog is doing all the work not the handler or owner. Your not cheating me your cheating the dog and for what. So your buddy won't get mad. The best dog should win in all cast not the name. JEREMY

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:30 am

Now I got that off my chest. Thanks for all the replies because i see where some people stand. Some points I agree and some I don't. I left you all my OPINION! I hope all of you luck this trial season, Just hope you don't draw out against Outlaw. LOL. Just kidding. Good luck and god bless. P.S. Even Frank Faulk and The Ashbaws if he is to do so. ( I will give Frank Faulks this He does Have some quality hounds like Allie, Cash and Ace. They are as good as they get.)