no more oversized dogs

[a-dog]

is there still a rules comittee rule book states that rule proposal shall be sent to chairman of rule commitee by june 1 then sent to clubs by july 1 so they can be voted on then approved by chairman of rules committee then presented to board of directors section e -f in your rule book did this happen i dont know all i know is that i did not vote on this issue it is a shame that the biggest format also the on that has the most competition does not ask for imput from their members or club officers that put as much time in as they do what will and already has happend is that many will move to other formats

[bucks better beagles]

What I like about this thread is that by now I have no Idea what is being discussed but it really is bringing out some new people with good ideas.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Got a question.Lets say i win the world and decide to run for hound of the year,things are looking good till the later part of the season and i gotta go to several hunts where there is bad blood and i get measured out in 3 straight hunts. Is my dog permantly out and do i loose all my hound of the year points? And what happens at that time.?

[toldyouso]

spruce ridge kennels Listen as a judge i have never went to the stake and ask anyone if they would like to mesurer dogs for the simple reason thats not my job. My job is to judge the dogs on checks jumps and strikes. If you as a handler would ask me about mesurering a dog i would relay the messages but never will i ask over and over again if anyone wants any dogs mesurered. I know this is how u work and knowing that u have never won anything big or little in hunts i could understand why you support this change but from what i have been told by a good friend of mind this will not help you anyway. From what i gather not much will.

[Bunnyblaster]

The problem is deeper then the over sized hound its about a majority of what people do or want. You do not change a rule or fix a problem without input from a majority. This is called DEMOCRACY. That is the real issue. You have very few people that have a problem with the mesurer rule. So here is the question. How many people out there have ever mesurered a dog. I will start me never. Been doing this since 1988 and i can count on my hands how many times i have seen this done and i average 20 to 25 trials a year and it is always the same people which is fine by me but the are not the majority the are the minority. So if we are going to protect the minority we are in serios trouble in this country. I always thought it was about majority rules did this change when i was not looking.

And this is a dead serious question that hopefully doesn't start the squabble back up but..........


Why do you think you don't see many people ask for a dog to get measured? Is it because there is almost never an oversized hound being entered? Is it because there are oversized dogs being entered but most have just become accustomed to it happening so they let it go? Is it because people don't ask because of the guff they take for it?

Like I said this is a dead serious question. The oversized dog thing gets brought up enough that I can't help but wonder if it happens more than some of you think but it just gets overlooked. And I may just be completely wrong. I do agree with your first 2 sentences completely though. I can't see where it helps anyone to make a change without input from as many people as you can get.

Maybe I would get a better idea of how many people think it's actually an issue if I polled it that way.

[Bunnyblaster]

Simple fact is you dont see dogs called out because of retaliation, especially at Big 5 hunts!!
Ole so n so calls out somebodys dog then the threats start, right at the stake!!

Thats why the rule was implemented, no one calls out dogs whether they are 16 or not. We all know some one that runs a big dog or have even run one ourselves

They are cleanning up their organization and we all have options.

That was what I gather from just hearing guys talk over the last few years. It's almost like it's a big no-no to call someones dog to the stand. And I think handing out threats is a chicken $h!t way to get what you want. That's why I don't understand if the dogs are supposed to be 15" and under then why don't they just measure every dog? And for you fellas that say it'll just take too long I think that's a cop-out.

[Bunnyblaster]

spruce ridge kennels Listen as a judge i have never went to the stake and ask anyone if they would like to mesurer dogs for the simple reason thats not my job. My job is to judge the dogs on checks jumps and strikes. If you as a handler would ask me about mesurering a dog i would relay the messages but never will i ask over and over again if anyone wants any dogs mesurered. I know this is how u work and knowing that u have never won anything big or little in hunts i could understand why you support this change but from what i have been told by a good friend of mind this will not help you anyway. From what i gather not much will.

Nice job with the mud slinging. You sit there and preach about getting input from other people but when it doesn't go along with your opinion you try to railroad the other guy?? That's mature. That right there tells me the kind of person you are cause anybody with any amount of decency would keep that kinda crap to themselves. Of course maybe it just makes you feel better to try to belittle someone on here. Or maybe he struck a nerve because maybe your one of the guys that frowns on measuring a dog in the first place.

Just one more reason to stay away from the trials.........you guys just keep rackin em up! You talk about getting attendance up but your attitude doesn't seem to be very tolerant or accommodating of others at all. At least not the of the ones that don't happen to agree with you.

[cpuckett]

spruce ridge beagler,i can't speek 4 everyone but i can speek 4 myself and a few good friends,it aint that were scared of retaliation or anything like u said,i don't measure a dog even if i know it's over sized because i don't want to win like that ....that's not even winnin that's being chicken crap do u really think that a inch beats a dog I DONT i will take my chances in the field runnin a rabbit,people know the rules and sometimes they break them it aint no different then a judge not giving u a check even thow he seen it just because it would put u in front of somebody he didnt want u in front off..all he's got to say is i missed it. when i come to a hunt i bring a dog that i think can win no it dont always happen but it aint cause the dog is bigger then mine it's cause my dog just got beat on that particular day.i don't think there should be any measureing thing before the hunts nobody is going to measure the same way.everybody knows they have the right to measure any dog u want at the cast marker..it's your right to do so.ive always thought that if i measure a dog then im saying that dog is better then mine and that my dog can't beat this dog ,,,,,,,,,,so ill take my chances............

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Got a question.Lets say i win the world and decide to run for hound of the year,things are looking good till the later part of the season and i gotta go to several hunts where there is bad blood and i get measured out in 3 straight hunts. Is my dog permantly out and do i loose all my hound of the year points? And what happens at that time.?

Cant understand no one has answered today. Ya know something else At the Kentucky state this year I may have see 2-3 big dogs, at most out of probaly 250 hounds.I just cant see why its such a big deal. Guess i dont see it. But if they wanna play that way thats ok also ,some people can get thru so now we are back where we started.........If you think buddy judging a problem wait till that stand comes out. It just seems to me that ARHA Has forgotten that Everett Morgan founded this sport for the Poor fellas too Play, Now its for the Poor Fellas too Pay.Too Bad.Obama doesnt own this now does he?.........

[MasonsBeagles]

i say dont measure.. if you have a collie dog or great dane that can smoke a rabbit Id like to see it and would gladly pay to do so.

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

Wow ,
Dont know where that came from????
My comment was not directed at anyone at all, nothing more than a general comment to the discussion at hand.
Never claimed to win a big hunt, sure would like to some day but never said my crap eaters were all that either. If I offended you than........ BTW ime sure your source is more than reputable, they probably dont run oversize dogs either
I dont have a dog in this fight, have not been to a LP hunt in over a year nor have i ever worried about an inch. Like my previous post said, i have even ran oversize dogs myself.
Feel free to call anytime
616-984-6377

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

The problem is deeper then the over sized hound its about a majority of what people do or want. You do not change a rule or fix a problem without input from a majority. This is called DEMOCRACY. That is the real issue. So here is the question. How many people out there have ever mesurered a dog. I will start me never. Been doing this since 1988 and i can count on my hands how many times i have seen this done and i average 20 to 25 trials a year and it is always the same people which is fine by me but the are not the majority the are the minority. So if we are going to protect the minority we are in serios trouble in this country. I always thought it was about majority rules did this change when i was not looking.

Are u kidding me?

It changed in the 1700's when they realized that majority rules isn't the best way. Its called "tyranny of the majority" Its also the main reason we don't have slaves, women and men without property can vote and why you get a trial even if people think your guilty.....We don't live in a democracy, we live in a constitutional republic in all actuality, Our system of government is "majority rules with minority rights"

Ben franklin summed it up like this...Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

Sorry to make this a history lesson or a political treatise but that kind of talk is why we threw innocent Japanese in internment camps and had the red scare in our country...

All that being said, I still think we should measure every dog and if its over 15 throw it out or change the rule... Idk either way but one or the two needs to happen... cant stay this way

[Aaron Bartlett]

Dont mind Frank.....He probably just bumped his head again and decide to try to get the cobwebs out on the message board. He seems to be good at that.
I dont run LP so it really makes no diffference to me what they end up doing but I say measure them all and have it over with. If there really is no issue with over sized dogs it will take very little time to measure them all reguardless of how many dogs are entered. Just set the stand at 15" and start running the dogs through. If the bar comes close to the dogs withers when the stand it set over the dog or the dog wont stand then take time to actually measure it. There is no need to actually measure a dog that is under about 14 1/2" to 14 3/4" because it should be fairly clear that the stand doesnt come close to the dog. For dogs that are this size or less it will only take a few seconds to run them through.

[toldyouso]

listen arron since you do not run little pack why put your two cents in the conversation and no i did not bump my head. I would love to meet up with you in person and talk about all that you think you know so much about. You do not even know me but thats okay i have run into people like you all my life. And it always comes out the same way. You are one of these people that changes his mind depending on the crowd in which you are hanging with that day. Thats called a follower not a leader but ha its easier to follow then lead. This way you do not make as many mistakes in life you always have a fall guy to blame it on just like a front running dog at a trial he who leads is picked up first and he who follows moves to next round sound right. And easter bunny bunnyblaster why not try to fix it where are your ideas and if you guys would look further then the front page you would see the real issues. This is why we live in a country that is headed for the gutter because no one whats to make the sacarfice to change the real issues. They just push the dirt under the rug or pass it on. Is this you do you just pass it on does your wife decipline your kids do they fear you like i feared my dad or are you a time out person. Guess what this isnt working. Once again the conversation i am getting at is much bigger then the size of a dog its about running a organization the way it used to be run. Sometimes the good old days were just that GOOD

[chapkosbeagles]

I STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW SIZE MAKES A DOG SO MUCH BETTER WHAT ABOUT

HUNT
NOSE
BRAINS
THE ABILITY TO JUST KNOW WHERE A RABBIT IS
EYES
EARS
IN MY OPENION SEED COMES FROM A LONG BACKBONE
IF YOU WANT A RABBIT DOG THESE THINGS ARE ALL MORE IMPORTAIN THAN SIZE

I HAVE SEEN 17 INCH HOUNDS RUN BRACE STYLE WHAT ABOUT THEM NO ONE COMPLAINES ABOUT THEM THIS IS JUST A COP OUT FOR GUYS WHO RUN MICRO MACHINES

HECK IF I WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT YOU GUYS DIDENT CALL DOGS OUT. I WOULD HAVE BROKE OUT ACE AN PUT A RECKIN ON YA BOYS
HE WOULD HAVE MADE IT A HUNT OR TWO BEFORE THE COP OUTS STARTED COMPLAINING.
I LEARNED FAST IN THE UKC HUNTS THAT EVEN YOUR RUNNING BUDDYS WILL COMPLAIN BEHIND YOUR BACK WHEN THEY HAVE 16 IN HOUNDS THEM SELFS AND ARE FINISHING THEM.

I ALSO LEARNED THIS IN THE MID WEST. THEY ALSO MEASURE BIG HOUNDS IN THE WINNERS PACK WHEN IT IS THERE BUDDYS DOG AS THEY WERE POINTING THE FINGER AT MY DOG EVEN THE JUDGES WERE CRACKING JOKES. ASKING ME WHERE MY SATTLE WAS. HELL THERE WAS A TRUCK STUCK IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THEY SAID WHERE IS CHAPKO HAVE HIM GET ACE TO PULL IT OUT.

SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY