no more oversized dogs

[MasonsBeagles]

another link. considering the Beagle a.k.a. rabbit dawg originated in the state of KY. I typically utilize the FULL 15". But for the other countries that try to lay claim to the origination they typically utilize 16".

http://www.riverviewacres.com/Beagles.htm
"

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

I stand corrected its just in America beagles are 15inches.... I guess you can go to Great Britten and run your hound then so we are all happy

In all seriousness, I wonder how that works with registry stuff when people switch papers in akc national breed club for the uk....especially for the show dogs

and 40cm in 15.75 inches not 16... a 16in dog would still be disqualified...

[a-dog]

dont care if they are 20 in a tuned in 14 in fast line control with power will win every time every fomat

[Bunnyblaster]

once again i am not missing the point i am just saying if you are going to fix the dam thing do it right you guys keep hinding behind this dam rule that is so grey when it comes to mesurer a dog correctly. I have only seen one person on here that even knows how to mesurer a dog. They are not suppose to be prop they are to stand in a natural position and the stand is to go directly behind the withers not on top of the withers BEHIND the withers. Ask any AKC judge this is where this was adopted NKC did not think this up on there own. Man its not that hard. All i ask is if my hound is over can i have my money back that is the right thing to do since all the sudden we are all about the right thing. Yea right lol

Yes you are. The rule is not grey it's black and white near as I can tell. Now whether the training of the judges is good......I'm guessing not so much in a lot of cases. And that part aside if you don't like the rule then don't go or take a dog that's at least got a chance of measuring in. And if it measures out then don't pitch a fit about it.......period!

[tinymwoods]

Yes you measure at the Very Top of the Withers.
When you feel down the back from the Neck you will feel the tip or top of the shoulder blades there will be an indentation between the shoulder blades put your finger there then set the bar on the stand directly in front of your finger this will put it at the top of the withers.
As far as getting the Dog to Stand place both feet directly under the dog straight up and down the withers will be located straight up from behind the front leg.

Unless I am wrong, and I am that a lot, isn't the dog supposed to be measured in its natural stance, not "stacked up"?

[TC]

Yes you measure at the Very Top of the Withers.
When you feel down the back from the Neck you will feel the tip or top of the shoulder blades there will be an indentation between the shoulder blades put your finger there then set the bar on the stand directly in front of your finger this will put it at the top of the withers.
As far as getting the Dog to Stand place both feet directly under the dog straight up and down the withers will be located straight up from behind the front leg.

Unless I am wrong, and I am that a lot, isn't the dog supposed to be measured in its natural stance, not "stacked up"?

A Hound that has proper conformation Will stand with both front feet well under them. (its a balance thing)
if you will watch a hound in its kennel relaxing it will usually stand with both front legs fairly straight and its back legs slightly behind it with its head at around the 10:00 o clock position. i Will not get into a debate on here as in times past about Conformation on a hound those that want to know more can contact me via PM or just do some research all the information is out there for the asking...

[thornie]

I have measured dogs in every associatation, and have never changed my standard. When I measure a dog, I ask the handler to place the dogs feet straight underneath him, head level with his shoulders, when the handler and I are both satisfied with the stance of the dog, I will measure it. As we all know some dogs can be shy of strangers, this is why I ask the handler to handle his or her dog. If one looks at the rules for measuring a dog, you will see, feet up under dog and head level with shoulders, or in its natural stance. What really gets me is when, the handler can't even get his or her dog to stand. How are you suppose to measure a dog then? Here are a few things to try when measureing a dog just to see the difference in a height measurement. Look at the pictures of runninghards dogs. With their heads in a show dog stance, how much difference in height would their height be if the dogs head was level with his or her shoulders? Measure you dog in a natural stance, then raise its head to a show stance and gently squeeze the chest area to make the dog get up on its toes. By doing this you have increased the height an 1/8 or 1/4 of an inch. So my point is all of the associatations standard say's natural stance.

[mybeagles]

What really gets me is when, the handler can't even get his or her dog to stand.

I hear guys say some dogs are just shy under the stand, but I'm not sure. Ive had about 25 dogs the past 15 years that were put under a stand and none of them laid down and refused to stand. Maybe it something to do with the way their handled??

tolduso,

You said nobody on this thread knows how to measure dogs except maybe one guy......are you that one guy? Do you judge often and have you measure a lot of dogs? Im guessing not, because you dont measure a dog behind the withers in the low of the back.

If there are big differences in the measurements of the same dog, its because its not standing. If you have exhausted every effort to a dog to stand and it still wont stand, you have to hold it in what you estimate to be its natural stance. Some guys call this "stacking the dog", but thats just because they are used to judges getting frustrated with a dog that wont stand, and just measuring it while it cowls....hence you get a big difference in its measurements.

Interesting to me how some of these dogs that wont stand for measurement, walk away proudly on the leash.......

Mybeagles

[toldyouso]

listen rose and bunny buster first my name is frank miller and yes i judge all the time. and know i was not talking about me mesuring. you go to the top of the shoulders do you know where that is? you slide your hand down the shoulders toward the back there is a very small separation between the shoulders bone and the back bone that is where the stand goes. If that is what your calling the wither then yes but if you are calling the withers the top of the shoulders you are wrong and i have seen several people make that mistake. Like thornie said if the dog stands in a natural stance as to proping the dog you will recieve a difference of a quarter of a inch. Hell i have even seen people with dogs that there hair is so thick and the judge does not take the bar to the bone and stops on the top of the fur cause a dog to gain another eightith of a inch. When a doctor mesurers your height he does not stop on the top of your hair he goes to your scull. RIGHT!!!!! bunny buster i am not trying to get around the rule .which the beagle orginated from england and the standard for a beagle is 13 to 16 anything over or under should not be recogized as a beagle we as americans changed the standard to fit what we believe to be right. FACT!!!!! what i am saying dogs that are on the fence are going to get a raw deal. wait and see!!!!!

[toldyouso]

listen rose and bunny buster first my name is frank miller and yes i judge all the time. and know i was not talking about me mesuring. you go to the top of the shoulders do you know where that is? you slide your hand down the shoulders toward the back there is a very small separation between the shoulders bone and the back bone that is where the stand goes. If that is what your calling the wither then yes but if you are calling the withers the top of the shoulders you are wrong and i have seen several people make that mistake. Like thornie said if the dog stands in a natural stance as to proping the dog you will recieve a difference of a quarter of a inch. Hell i have even seen people with dogs that there hair is so thick and the judge does not take the bar to the bone and stops on the top of the fur cause a dog to gain another eightith of a inch. When a doctor mesurers your height he does not stop on the top of your hair he goes to your scull. RIGHT!!!!! bunny buster i am not trying to get around the rule .which the beagle orginated from england and the standard for a beagle is 13 to 16 anything over or under should not be recogized as a beagle we as americans changed the standard to fit what we believe to be right. FACT!!!!! what i am saying dogs that are on the fence are going to get a raw deal. wait and see!!!!!

[Lee Cockman]

Frank Miller is my HERO! Tell it the way it is Frank! You have got to love this guy.

Frank Miller for president man this country needs a change!

[wvrabbithunter26836]

Frank Miller for president man this country needs a change!



WE HEARD THAT THE LAST ELECTION,,,,,SEE WHAT HAPPEN!!!!!!!

[lee broadley]

when a doctor measures us on our shoulder or even lower we will laugh our asses off. when a cop gives you a ticket for speeding do you argue that it is ok to speed? if you are breaking the rule and know it i hope you measure out every time[ this is called justice] if you are on border best of luck. if you measure in sometime and out sometime it is your own reputation you are putting on the line, be careful it is harder to get a good rep than a bad rep even harder to change back.dont really understand this whole argument rules are rules. people let 1/4" slide so much next was 1/2" next was 1" rule needs to be reinforced to keep dogs close to 15"

[Bunnyblaster]

It's nice to see someone can understand what a rule book is for.

First of all it's bunnyblaster not bunny buster there Franky boy. And second I don't see how the dogs on the fence are gonna get a raw deal. I agreed with you in your earlier post about making sure judges know how to properly measure a dog. And it seems we can all agree that the same dog will not measure the exact same every time it's under the bar right? So if the judge is measuring properly and the dog measures in great. If for whatever reason he stands a little too tall the next time around and measures 15 1/4" then scratch his @$$. You wanna let it slide just because it's only a 1/4" and like lee said next thing you know they'll be letting a 1/2" slide. I believe some guys are intentional about it and most are not. They just happen to have a dog that is right at the line. But good guy, bad guy, or be it the Pope himself if the dog measures over then he's out and quit making up excuses for making exceptions. You rambled on and on about all the other bad things that go on in trialing that are worse than an oversized dog but sorry enforcing the rules is enforcing the rules. You shouldn't just get to pick and choose which rules are important enough to enforce and which ones aren't. One more time and I'll be clear about this. I UNDERSTAND that it may not seem like that big of an infraction and I'm sure a lot of guys are not intentionally being dishonest. Like you said they just have a dog that measures really tight to that 15" mark. But don't make excuses for giving them a free pass and don't get pissy when your dog measures over..........unless of course it's because the judge can't properly measure.

[Bunnyblaster]

Oooooh, and I forgot.......rulebook = FACT!!!!!