A lot of satisfied customers on their reference site is what I see!!!! Maybe it is a puppy mill but some happy kids is what I'm thinking about. God those are some pretty beagles. How many Jeep Wranglers do you think are sold in America that NEVER SEE DIRT?? A Whole Bunch thats how many!!!! I think we call this good business sence myself, don't know about ya'll...
Rich Piacentine
Puppy pricing
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
Patch you Are Correct I did Jump To ConclusionsS.R.Patch wrote:Me thinks you should have gotten those answers before forming your "opinion" and posting it...
You expect people to keep an open mind to your breeding in show stock, but will not lend that same curtsey to others with their own ways, you know nothing about/ not even till you have the facts...
BTW, I've not been to the site, but all I get from your post is that you think 14 studs & 12 bitches is to much. What numbers do you think Branko work with untill he settled his breeding?
Again, I know nothing of the site or the people dong the breeding but won't judge them on a public board /w no facts...
I made an Assumption and we all Know what that starts With!!!
You are also Correct in that I should have Done More research and actually Went out and Done the Reviews!!! Again Not Good!!
I was basing my Assumption on personal experience With A Local Person that Purchased A pup From this lady In Utah that also runs a Beagle Barn in Conjuction With the one in Idaho maybe She is not part of this Conglomerate of Breeders That Share thier Stock between them ( from my Understanding thier is also a Beagle Barn in Denver Co). I have not been able to Set up the Corelation Of the names and breeds But will post If I do!
I will also Go back And Retract my Statement Until i am Able to make the connection
Thank you Again For pointing Out My Mistake
TC
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
I just received this email from them
Hello There,
My puppies are sold with full rights, so you may show, hunt or breed. Liberty and Hunter parents where from show stock, but I did not show them. Katie and Rosie, come from Storm'n Norman who was champion field dog, but I did not run him. I raise my dogs primarily for family pets and many have be in shown in small 4-H or junior shows, by the kids who have purchased them. If you are looking to just start into shows or field trials and are doing it for the enjoyment, then yes I have great dogs that would do well. If you are looking to go big time showing then I am probably not the breeder you are looking for. Dogs that have a long line of shows under their belt, are not sold out right, the breeder still owns the dog you purchase (50/50) and you are required to train and attend so many shows to retain the right of ownership of that dog.
Let me know if I can be of further help,
Linda Tordai
http://www.TheBeagleBarn.com
It sounds like she isn't trying to push them, just selling beagles and i agree, putting allot of smiles of peoples faces.
Crewchf
I love that line about the Jeep....PERFECT...just perfect.
I must admit, if I could, i would do something very similiar to this
Spend everyday with my pack of 20-25 beagles. Hunting, playing, bonding, and breeding. Putting smiles on hunters and families faces alike.
And doing it as a business that would pay the bills and put food on the table and in the bowls.
To me, that would be a perfect world
Goes
Hello There,
My puppies are sold with full rights, so you may show, hunt or breed. Liberty and Hunter parents where from show stock, but I did not show them. Katie and Rosie, come from Storm'n Norman who was champion field dog, but I did not run him. I raise my dogs primarily for family pets and many have be in shown in small 4-H or junior shows, by the kids who have purchased them. If you are looking to just start into shows or field trials and are doing it for the enjoyment, then yes I have great dogs that would do well. If you are looking to go big time showing then I am probably not the breeder you are looking for. Dogs that have a long line of shows under their belt, are not sold out right, the breeder still owns the dog you purchase (50/50) and you are required to train and attend so many shows to retain the right of ownership of that dog.
Let me know if I can be of further help,
Linda Tordai
http://www.TheBeagleBarn.com
It sounds like she isn't trying to push them, just selling beagles and i agree, putting allot of smiles of peoples faces.
Crewchf
I love that line about the Jeep....PERFECT...just perfect.
I must admit, if I could, i would do something very similiar to this
Spend everyday with my pack of 20-25 beagles. Hunting, playing, bonding, and breeding. Putting smiles on hunters and families faces alike.
And doing it as a business that would pay the bills and put food on the table and in the bowls.
To me, that would be a perfect world
Goes
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Boomer, I know you never did. You just got caught up in the crossfire like I did. I hope there are no hard feelings and I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else. Take Care.Boomer wrote:"I just get a little uptight when people start taking pop shots at the small breeders who put out darn good hunting dogs in their backyards! I dont feel like anyone has a right to call them a puppy mill because they dont charge $1000 a pup or raise them in a big heated barn. There is no room in rabbit dogs for people to be looking down their noses like they are better because they charge more, make more or have more. And thats how I feel about it."
WSRandy,
I never took any pot shots at small breeders, nor did I say they were puppy mills.
Randy
[quote]A lot of satisfied customers on their reference site is what I see!!!![/quote]
Yeah, but they've got 5 litters scheduled for March alone! How hard is it to get a dozen satisfied customers if you put-out pups at that kind of rate?
Positives: I see that they don't ship. A lot of puppy millers will advertise "ship anywhere" because it helps sell in volume and keeps you from seeing the conditions they raise pups in. It also means they at least meet the potential buyers, too, and require that you meet a pup before taking it home. And based on the email, they seem to be honest and upfront.
On the bad side (and I think most people here will agree): there really is no need to breed specifically for "pet" beagles. There are plenty of pet quality beagles being put-out by show and field kennels alike. The shelters are full of "pet" beagles. At $500-600/pup when you don't trial or show, it's a business, and IMHO it's a business that takes shortcuts and hurts the breed. There's selling pups for $500/600 the "right" way, and there's selling pups for $500/600 the "wrong" way. IMHO, they're on the "wrong" side.
Yeah, but they've got 5 litters scheduled for March alone! How hard is it to get a dozen satisfied customers if you put-out pups at that kind of rate?
Positives: I see that they don't ship. A lot of puppy millers will advertise "ship anywhere" because it helps sell in volume and keeps you from seeing the conditions they raise pups in. It also means they at least meet the potential buyers, too, and require that you meet a pup before taking it home. And based on the email, they seem to be honest and upfront.
On the bad side (and I think most people here will agree): there really is no need to breed specifically for "pet" beagles. There are plenty of pet quality beagles being put-out by show and field kennels alike. The shelters are full of "pet" beagles. At $500-600/pup when you don't trial or show, it's a business, and IMHO it's a business that takes shortcuts and hurts the breed. There's selling pups for $500/600 the "right" way, and there's selling pups for $500/600 the "wrong" way. IMHO, they're on the "wrong" side.
Rich,
I'm sure there are others here who'd say I'm being too harsh or jumping to conclusions. I feel that breeding should be done for the purpose of improving the breed, and this kennel doesn't appear to do that. IMHO, there is no reason for "pet" beagle breeders, and I think a lot of posters here will agree. There are enough field and show cull beagles to meet the needs of the pet buyers. Call you local animal shelter and find out how often they have beagles. Chances are they'll answer, "All the time." And they're not culls from the responsible show or field breeders!
$500-600 for a field or show cull may be worth it for the amount of work those breeders put into their lines. $500-600 for a puppy that has nothing more than essentially purebred papers behind it just represents a breeding business. There are 5 litters lined-up in March alone. 6 pups x 5 litters x $500 = $15,000. That's just for March. They had at least two litters in December and two in January, too, for 9 litters in 4 months (and there's 11 other bitches they have shown - tough to assume they won't be bred their next heat, too!). And like I said, there's no justification for those prices. They didn't spend a lot of money showing the dogs to prove their conformation to the standard, they didn't spend a lot of money doing health-testing, they didn't spend a lot of money trialing to show these dogs are good hunters, etc. But there are people who don't know better who will spend $500-600 for a papered beagle pup thinking that's a good price. Just because people will overpay for something doesn't make it right.
They appeal to people who want a "pet," because some puppy buyers don't know that basically any beagle can make a good pet (it's not something you have to specifically breed for). They appeal to people who want AKC papers, because the public puts so much emphasis on having AKC-registered dogs (regardless of how well bred they actually are). They appeal to people who want to imitate their operation because they don't have any spay/neuter contracts, limited registrations, etc, which just proliferates the growth of even more "pet" breeders (or at least people who just "have" to have one or two litters from their dog). They appeal to internet window-shoppers who are too lazy to research a important purchase like this. They appeal to people who don't want to go through a screening process (at least, there isn't one mentioned).
And if they are "bred from the finest quality dams and sires" as the website states, why aren't any of these names mentioned? Better yet, where are the pedigrees? Also, how can they say that "they shed little and have no "doggy" odor" when beagles do shed a lot more than little (not like a husky, but certainly as much as the average breed) and have just as much "doggy" odor as other breeds? Seems like they're just embellishing to try to make a sale at this point.
Anyone who has ever bred a few litters has some satisfied customers. It's impossible to breed beagles and have everyone hate the puppies they bought from you. Anyone who has ever bred several litters has several satisfied customers. I loved my first beagle to death, and he was a great dog in a lot of ways, but he came from a puppy mill and a pet store. I didn't know any better the first few years of his life, but as he got older, I really started noticing the problems. I'd never buy a pet store/puppy mill dog again otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me!
I wouldn't call these people scum-of-the-earth breeders (I've seen many who are a lot worse - like I said, these people are at least upfront about some things and do some things right, like require you to come in person and wait until 8 weeks before a pup can be taken home), but I think they take advantage of people, don't care about improving the breed, are doing this just to make money, and contribute to the problem of beagles in shelters that not only bothers me greatly in principle but hits us all with taxes, license fees, and animal rights activist activity.
People may support the right of these people to do what they do, but not many here would ever consider buying a beagle from these people.
I'm sure there are others here who'd say I'm being too harsh or jumping to conclusions. I feel that breeding should be done for the purpose of improving the breed, and this kennel doesn't appear to do that. IMHO, there is no reason for "pet" beagle breeders, and I think a lot of posters here will agree. There are enough field and show cull beagles to meet the needs of the pet buyers. Call you local animal shelter and find out how often they have beagles. Chances are they'll answer, "All the time." And they're not culls from the responsible show or field breeders!
$500-600 for a field or show cull may be worth it for the amount of work those breeders put into their lines. $500-600 for a puppy that has nothing more than essentially purebred papers behind it just represents a breeding business. There are 5 litters lined-up in March alone. 6 pups x 5 litters x $500 = $15,000. That's just for March. They had at least two litters in December and two in January, too, for 9 litters in 4 months (and there's 11 other bitches they have shown - tough to assume they won't be bred their next heat, too!). And like I said, there's no justification for those prices. They didn't spend a lot of money showing the dogs to prove their conformation to the standard, they didn't spend a lot of money doing health-testing, they didn't spend a lot of money trialing to show these dogs are good hunters, etc. But there are people who don't know better who will spend $500-600 for a papered beagle pup thinking that's a good price. Just because people will overpay for something doesn't make it right.
They appeal to people who want a "pet," because some puppy buyers don't know that basically any beagle can make a good pet (it's not something you have to specifically breed for). They appeal to people who want AKC papers, because the public puts so much emphasis on having AKC-registered dogs (regardless of how well bred they actually are). They appeal to people who want to imitate their operation because they don't have any spay/neuter contracts, limited registrations, etc, which just proliferates the growth of even more "pet" breeders (or at least people who just "have" to have one or two litters from their dog). They appeal to internet window-shoppers who are too lazy to research a important purchase like this. They appeal to people who don't want to go through a screening process (at least, there isn't one mentioned).
And if they are "bred from the finest quality dams and sires" as the website states, why aren't any of these names mentioned? Better yet, where are the pedigrees? Also, how can they say that "they shed little and have no "doggy" odor" when beagles do shed a lot more than little (not like a husky, but certainly as much as the average breed) and have just as much "doggy" odor as other breeds? Seems like they're just embellishing to try to make a sale at this point.
Anyone who has ever bred a few litters has some satisfied customers. It's impossible to breed beagles and have everyone hate the puppies they bought from you. Anyone who has ever bred several litters has several satisfied customers. I loved my first beagle to death, and he was a great dog in a lot of ways, but he came from a puppy mill and a pet store. I didn't know any better the first few years of his life, but as he got older, I really started noticing the problems. I'd never buy a pet store/puppy mill dog again otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me!
I wouldn't call these people scum-of-the-earth breeders (I've seen many who are a lot worse - like I said, these people are at least upfront about some things and do some things right, like require you to come in person and wait until 8 weeks before a pup can be taken home), but I think they take advantage of people, don't care about improving the breed, are doing this just to make money, and contribute to the problem of beagles in shelters that not only bothers me greatly in principle but hits us all with taxes, license fees, and animal rights activist activity.
People may support the right of these people to do what they do, but not many here would ever consider buying a beagle from these people.
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
crewchf,
I agree totally! I will also add however that anyone can throw a couple of hounds in a room and let them do their thing and end up with a litter of "cute" puppies. Who cannot fall for any pup that comes up licking your hand and wagging it's tail. To me average is average when it comes to looks and hunt. I personally don't want a bunch of house dogs for my hunting companions or I would go to the Pound. If you plan to breed an sell dogs that will be show quailty they sure better be out of show quality parents and not just some plain ole house dog and the same goes for hunting stock. I want a beagle to look and hunt like a freaking beagle and if that offends some with great running ugly dogs.....oh well! By the same token I refuse to believe anyone can own, handle and train dozens of beagles at a time. I have hunted with guys with this philosophy and we are going back for days chasing down hounds that don't know their names. how to handle, run everything except a rabbit and so on. I have all I can handle with my hard heads at times and they have tons of attention. But even with the eight I have I feel stretched at this point for individual attention for them. Goes...all due respect but...the dream of making a living out of running bunches of hounds through endless meadows of wildflowers in the peaceful tranquility of happyland is pure fantasy.....and those (including some of my closest buddies) who have tried to follow that dream have only caused me Nightmares
!
Try to imagine if you had 30 or so kids and needed to remember who was shy, who needed a hug, who needed a kick in the ass, who got a gold star on their home work and who didn't do it at all, who needed to go tp the doctor, and who needed to get to soccer practice. You could never do them justice and I think it is the same and worse with dogs because they are always totaly dependent on you like a bunch of toddlers. They never learn to fix their own sandwich or flush their own poop! I just don't buy the dream! And I sure don't want to baby sit THOSE kids!!
NYH
I agree totally! I will also add however that anyone can throw a couple of hounds in a room and let them do their thing and end up with a litter of "cute" puppies. Who cannot fall for any pup that comes up licking your hand and wagging it's tail. To me average is average when it comes to looks and hunt. I personally don't want a bunch of house dogs for my hunting companions or I would go to the Pound. If you plan to breed an sell dogs that will be show quailty they sure better be out of show quality parents and not just some plain ole house dog and the same goes for hunting stock. I want a beagle to look and hunt like a freaking beagle and if that offends some with great running ugly dogs.....oh well! By the same token I refuse to believe anyone can own, handle and train dozens of beagles at a time. I have hunted with guys with this philosophy and we are going back for days chasing down hounds that don't know their names. how to handle, run everything except a rabbit and so on. I have all I can handle with my hard heads at times and they have tons of attention. But even with the eight I have I feel stretched at this point for individual attention for them. Goes...all due respect but...the dream of making a living out of running bunches of hounds through endless meadows of wildflowers in the peaceful tranquility of happyland is pure fantasy.....and those (including some of my closest buddies) who have tried to follow that dream have only caused me Nightmares
!
Try to imagine if you had 30 or so kids and needed to remember who was shy, who needed a hug, who needed a kick in the ass, who got a gold star on their home work and who didn't do it at all, who needed to go tp the doctor, and who needed to get to soccer practice. You could never do them justice and I think it is the same and worse with dogs because they are always totaly dependent on you like a bunch of toddlers. They never learn to fix their own sandwich or flush their own poop! I just don't buy the dream! And I sure don't want to baby sit THOSE kids!!NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
NYH, you are right it is a fantasy world, but that's why they call dreaming. 
As for being able to handle that many dogs. I can't say 30, but I had 27 and could tell you all youwanted know about each one and more. I knew their heat cycles, when to worm, when to give shots, and could release all 27 at 1 time and could tell you each hound as they opened. I could whistle and 20 of them would come back to me right away. Then they would walk qwith me back to my house and they would jump up in their kennel. They each knew which was theirs and which wasn't. Then I would have to walk back up in the "meadow" and call the others and the would come, not as quickly but they would.
As for knowig their personalities, I could. The day started with watering. Then I had a schedule of who's turn it was to run that day, we'd go running for a few hours, then back home. Like yourself I was a student (no classes before 11:00am). Then they were left alone until after our supper then it was their turn. They would each eat, after they were done, I opened all the kennel doors and let them run around and play with me and the kids. Wrapped around our kennels we had about a 1/2 acre play pen. It had chairs in the middle were we would sit and just enjoy them. Once they calmed down a bit I went to work, time to clean up after them.
Each would sit, down, and come when told to, but by not only me, but by my wife and kids.
Moving out here darn near killed me because I could not bring them all with me. I sold some and gave some away, they were some tough times. Drove me into a deep dark depression. Because even though I have 3 children, but letting them go, I imagine felt the same way as it would for me to give up my kids.
NYH, you know I respect you and your opinion, but just because you don't think you could do it, please don't under estimate someone elses ability to do so.
Please take care
Goes
As for being able to handle that many dogs. I can't say 30, but I had 27 and could tell you all youwanted know about each one and more. I knew their heat cycles, when to worm, when to give shots, and could release all 27 at 1 time and could tell you each hound as they opened. I could whistle and 20 of them would come back to me right away. Then they would walk qwith me back to my house and they would jump up in their kennel. They each knew which was theirs and which wasn't. Then I would have to walk back up in the "meadow" and call the others and the would come, not as quickly but they would.
As for knowig their personalities, I could. The day started with watering. Then I had a schedule of who's turn it was to run that day, we'd go running for a few hours, then back home. Like yourself I was a student (no classes before 11:00am). Then they were left alone until after our supper then it was their turn. They would each eat, after they were done, I opened all the kennel doors and let them run around and play with me and the kids. Wrapped around our kennels we had about a 1/2 acre play pen. It had chairs in the middle were we would sit and just enjoy them. Once they calmed down a bit I went to work, time to clean up after them.
Each would sit, down, and come when told to, but by not only me, but by my wife and kids.
Moving out here darn near killed me because I could not bring them all with me. I sold some and gave some away, they were some tough times. Drove me into a deep dark depression. Because even though I have 3 children, but letting them go, I imagine felt the same way as it would for me to give up my kids.
NYH, you know I respect you and your opinion, but just because you don't think you could do it, please don't under estimate someone elses ability to do so.
Please take care
Goes
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Clyde Gott
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:22 pm
- Location: Lafe, Arkansas
- Contact:
WSRandy wrote:
“I asked Doc Scott when I first got into beagles whether I should use Interceptor or Ivomec, he said Interceptor cant kill my dog and Ivomec for hogs could.....that decided it for me and here I am. I build houses, not medications......I am a carpenter, not a chemist or vet. I will let them do their jobs and they can let me do mine. Its not worth $1 a month to OD a dog I like.”
“I’m not here to say whether Ivomec is good or bad for a dog, I have asked 3-4 vets and none will tell me to give it....if I ever find a vet that says to use it and gives me instructions I feel safe with, I will do it, but if it can kill my dog or pups......I am not interested.”
Randy according to this article http://www.espomagazine.com/vet/jan96.htm written by Dr. Silverio (a “vet”), Ivomec is the medication in Heartguard, whereas, millemycin is the medication in Interceptor…both will effectively kill heartworms. His article also gives the proper dose.
Hope this helps…
P.S. – I think some “vets” are against “us” giving our dogs Ivomec because it means that’s a dollar they ain’t gona get. My Vet…knows its expense to maintain a kennel and helps me out and is there for me when I need him. I took a female over about three weeks ago to have the last two pups cut out. One pup was alive…he charged me $150 for the C-Section…and that was it! Most “vets” charge $250 to $300 and would have charged me for the having the pup in his office…why that visit would have cost me $350 to $500 most places.
...as to the subject at hand...someone has already said it...supply and demand. It's the American Way!!!
“I asked Doc Scott when I first got into beagles whether I should use Interceptor or Ivomec, he said Interceptor cant kill my dog and Ivomec for hogs could.....that decided it for me and here I am. I build houses, not medications......I am a carpenter, not a chemist or vet. I will let them do their jobs and they can let me do mine. Its not worth $1 a month to OD a dog I like.”
“I’m not here to say whether Ivomec is good or bad for a dog, I have asked 3-4 vets and none will tell me to give it....if I ever find a vet that says to use it and gives me instructions I feel safe with, I will do it, but if it can kill my dog or pups......I am not interested.”
Randy according to this article http://www.espomagazine.com/vet/jan96.htm written by Dr. Silverio (a “vet”), Ivomec is the medication in Heartguard, whereas, millemycin is the medication in Interceptor…both will effectively kill heartworms. His article also gives the proper dose.
Hope this helps…
P.S. – I think some “vets” are against “us” giving our dogs Ivomec because it means that’s a dollar they ain’t gona get. My Vet…knows its expense to maintain a kennel and helps me out and is there for me when I need him. I took a female over about three weeks ago to have the last two pups cut out. One pup was alive…he charged me $150 for the C-Section…and that was it! Most “vets” charge $250 to $300 and would have charged me for the having the pup in his office…why that visit would have cost me $350 to $500 most places.
...as to the subject at hand...someone has already said it...supply and demand. It's the American Way!!!
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
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Honey Pot Hounds
- Posts: 1353
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: New Hampshire
- Contact:
Does that mean we are going to get you in the show ring?VABEAGLER wrote: Justify it all you want! Show me any market where i can sell beagle pups for that kind of money and i will show you a guy that just found a new occupation!!!!
You know the people who will pay that much for a puppy want some snob factor behind it.Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea of us show folk here..most of us only have MAYBE one or two litters a year to keep puppies for ourselves to be able to continue to participate in our sport and we try to breed BETTER Beagles with every litter. No-one is getting rich selling puppies that I know of. And yes, Boomers list of breeding expenses is real.....basically we try to be able to just make back a little compensation but in reality this is a very expensive hobby IMHO.
I want to do it because I love my Beagles. Love the sport of dogs (field &/or show) and love the puppies. I'd rather be here at home with my Beagles than sitting on a beach drinking (been there, done that)....although maybe for just a week or two.....
Cindy
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http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/home/
Created to fight bad legislation and defend the victims of animal and environmental extremism.
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