Dogs that hunt hard but dont produce...

[BB Beagles]

I will agree, a hound must have desire. But to me, desire has nothing to do with the mind, it comes from the heart and soul. A hound should have the desire to do what it was bred to do, but the still have to have the other tools also.

Example: remember the movie Rudy? Where the lil guy wanted to play for Norte dame and did but got lil play time? Perfect example of ton of desire but missing rest of the tools.

[Dogman]

Brains will have them looking in the right places and nose power will confirm it. It takes both with time in the field to make a good one. jmo

[likeemfast]

I will agree, a hound must have desire. But to me, desire has nothing to do with the mind, it comes from the heart and soul. A hound should have the desire to do what it was bred to do, but the still have to have the other tools also.

Example: remember the movie Rudy? Where the lil guy wanted to play for Norte dame and did but got lil play time? Perfect example of ton of desire but missing rest of the tools.

BB, also remember in the movie Rudy, the running back who was pissed at Rudy for having too much DESIRE, and always going all-out even in practice? Coach Parseghian told that running back after a fight with Rudy in practice, ...."that if he had half the heart of Rudy, he would of been an all-American." Ya can have all the tools in the world, but if ya don't have the ''DESIRE'' to use them ya wont amount to much.

Brains will have them looking in the right places and nose power will confirm it. It takes both with time in the field to make a good one. jmo

Dogman, in my opinion, brains teach them where to look to a point, as in, if they jump one from a brush pile and run it with that good nose, the next time when he passes a brush pile his brain should tell him to check it out. Desire, is required 1st tho cuz if they dont have the desire they may stand on the path cocking their head from side to side waiting for Rudy to jump the rabbit and then go help run it with their brains and nose.

I think in the trial world in several formats, a hound with just brains and nose can become a FC, but for me to feed them, as a rabbit hunter only, they must have the desire too, 1st and foremost. Desire can help make up for a less than intelligent hound as well as a not so powerful nose, because in my opinion, they have the desire to do so. JMO

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Had a beagle given to me years ago.He was a young year old dog that hadn't been hunted as the guy said he hadn't had any time to work him.I took him as he was probably the best looking beagle I'd ever seen.Show dog looks and a real physical specimin.
Hunted him a lot and he was absolutely the hardest hunting/searching dog I've ever seen.He was constantly on the move and would search every brush pile,blowdown,dozer pile,thicket,etc. he came to.Unbelievable hunt!
That dog NEVER jumped a rabbit for me and if I jumped one and put him on it he couldn't run it a 100 feet but when he lost it would work the loss like a madman and wouldn't quit until you leashed him up and pulled him off.
I gave him to a hunting buddy that said he'd give him a try and he found the same result.Pete was a nice dog personality wise and build but was no rabbit dog and ended up being disposed of.
Looking back I'd say he had no nose at all??? Maybe had something medically wrong with him???
I've seen hounds that I would call "hot nosed" and I've seen plenty with what some would call "cold nose" that boo all over the place and can never move out but Pete was the only one I've seen that had no nose.

[BCBeagles]

My opinion, A LOT of guys put the word "hunt" in for staying busy, and what I like to call....stay gone.

I have several that "stay gone" and look busy....but they sure aren't my hunters.....the jump dogs don't waste alot of time where rabbits are not.....MANY look as if they are "hunting" when in fact they are just staying busy and/or staying gone....

Rabbit jumping tells you how hard a dog actually hunts, plain and simple....they don't produce game they aren't "hunting" where the game is.....the rest they are just busy and gone(away from you looking)... I use the term looking loosely cause they could stagger onto an easy one now and again.

I bet if guys were honest they could calculate up a percentage that is much higher than they would like to admit of one or two dogs....in there pack....that jump over 80% of the rabbits.

I have two that jump most of my rabbits, both males...put them both together....everything else struggles to be in the right place at the right time. All others "look busy" and "stay gone" to look like hunters....lol.

[BB Beagles]

Likem fast, I'm not disagreeing with ya. A hound needs to have desire. And yes RUDY did have a ton of it, but could he go on with his career for football on desire alone? NO! If he been built and performed like the running back he prob would.
I was just using that as a example of a ton of desire.

I've seen hounds that hunt hard and perform hard but after a certain amount of time, they might just be done. To me they lack in desire. That's why I said desire comes from the heart and soul of a hound. For that matter, desire could kill a dog. That's were the term ( run yourself to death ) comes from, because it just won't give up and keeps going.

I've also seen hounds have ton of desire, but had no clue what there desire was about. Working theirselves to death, but producing nothing, besides desire itself. Kinda like Rudy.

This has nothing to do with making a FC or a champion. This has to do with a true rabbit dog. You can help aid the hound to hunt, by putting him in rabbits at a early age, you can aid them in running by running them with good line control dogs, you can even aid them in not being to mouthy by not running them with a bunch loose mouth dogs.
You cannot aid them in desire, it is something from within. They either have it or not. That's why I said they also need all other tools.

Again not disagreeing with you, I like for mine to have as much desire as they were given.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

I've seen several ways that beagles "hunt" rabbits.

1. Tons of desire, pulling on the leash, kick dirt in your face when unsnapped. But rarely jump rabbits! Spends too much time "running around" the woods wasting time.
2. A dog that has "learned" where the rabbits are, checks out brush piles, under junk, thick weeds, briars, etc.
3. A pup that is bred to jump rabbits, checks out all of the stuff #2 has but isn't even started yet? Bred to hunt.
4. Dog is unsnapped, stands on the path waiting for hunter to walk, covers ground at the speed the hunter walks. If the hunter walks through briars...so will the dog.
5. Dog is unleashed, runs around out of sight, stops and listens every 10 sec., hoping dog #2 or 3 jumps a rabbit!

[likeemfast]

BB, nope, dont think your disagreeing, were on the same page. I just thought the Rudy analogy proved our points on both parts.

I've seen several ways that beagles "hunt" rabbits.

1. Tons of desire, pulling on the leash, kick dirt in your face when unsnapped. But rarely jump rabbits! Spends too much time "running around" the woods wasting time.
2. A dog that has "learned" where the rabbits are, checks out brush piles, under junk, thick weeds, briars, etc.
3. A pup that is bred to jump rabbits, checks out all of the stuff #2 has but isn't even started yet? Bred to hunt.
4. Dog is unsnapped, stands on the path waiting for hunter to walk, covers ground at the speed the hunter walks. If the hunter walks through briars...so will the dog.
5. Dog is unleashed, runs around out of sight, stops and listens every 10 sec., hoping dog #2 or 3 jumps a rabbit!

LPB, I do disagree that a hound with tons of desire does as you say on #1. A hound can and does have desire without those points you listed above. I whole heartedly agree with numbers 3,4 and 5 tho. I owned a hound named Cryon Bo Diddley, I will use him as an example cuz maybe you heard of him. I owned and gun hunted him for 2 years and he was full of DESIRE, didn't run around wasting time and definitely jumped rabbits. When leashed, yes, he wanted to get to the truck in a hurry. I had no issues with that, since it was only when we were headed out, not back. That would of worried me, lol.

[Dogman]

You cant have desire for something until you know what you want or in this case what your looking for. Does'nt really matter like chicken and egg debate bottomline is do you like the dog.

[likeemfast]

You cant have desire for something until you know what you want or in this case what your looking for. Does'nt really matter like chicken and egg debate bottomline is do you like the dog.

AGREED!!!! But once ya get that 1st taste of chicken, .... Or egg, ya better as heck want more or die tryin! DESIRE!!!

Just brains with a nose don't cut it. IMO

[underdog]

likeemfast. Thanks for the advice on your results from breeding littermate sisters. I currently have 2 littermate sisters that I
kept from my last litter to see which produced the best pups off of the same male. If the first cross is junk I won't scrap my
whole program... I will just breed the other female. It's amazing how DNA works.