Breeding for NOSE POWER

[chapkosbeagles]

Well said patch

[BCBeagles]

Pilot knob, with all due respect, please let me know if ANYONE responds with the type of hound you seek! I want a few of them, lol! I have a few with well above average noses,but they will open early at times. Watched three of them run with 5 others bouncing around them for 60 yards and jump a rabbit setting 10 yards out ahead of me. The others opened and ran once the rabbit was jumped, I don't know if that rabbit would have been jumped had the three big nose ones not ran it to a jump?? I will live with the early mouth for just that reason. They did not boohoo and bore, they moved it to a jump. Call it what you will,I will take it. I am a hunter first. I want them to run every rabbit they can, not just the ideal scenario races.JMO's.

[fjg2]

I have heard guys get jealous of Green Bay hounds. I don't understand please fill me in .

not sure what you are referring too? I have seen some darn impressive greenbay hounds run with showed awesome nose. Which ever male Joe K. ran last Feburary at the adirondack SPOH and took a first in 13" male class surely dominated his winners brace?

[littlewoody]

I have heard guys get jealous of Green Bay hounds. I don't understand please fill me in .

not sure what you are referring too? I have seen some darn impressive greenbay hounds run with showed awesome nose. Which ever male Joe K. ran last Feburary at the adirondack SPOH and took a first in 13" male class surely dominated his winners brace?

I have a dog out of Butkus I'm happy . Maybe guys don't want to pay what I paid for a pup .

[NorWester1]

Seems alot of the time attempting to breed in big nose one soon finds themselves in a predicament of dealing with extra mouth at times and trying to balance what is acceptable for them in an effort to produce dogs able to run ANY TIME they desire.

It's also not uncommon to read of fellows who claim big nose that don't carry this sort of baggage. If there are any of those guys reading this, how are you getting around the stumbling back of extra mouth (cold trailing, back tracking, dog tracking, barking in the check, etc,etc)..... and still consistently produce that big nose?
How do you evaluate that nose power?

Is it a mistake to look at nose power as an isolated trait?....... perhaps as one fellow suggested should it simply be a focus on the total package, the sum of all traits that enable some hounds to run when others struggle and give the credit to this ability to nose power?

[Ron Conroe]

i honesly think you can not have a big nose with out having extra mouth, but here in mi i can put up with a little extra mouth. because in the winter no nose no wabbits. thats a fact unless you want to jump shoot.

[bluegrass]

i honesly think you can not have a big nose with out having extra mouth, but here in mi i can put up with a little extra mouth. because in the winter no nose no wabbits. thats a fact unless you want to jump shoot.

[pilotknob]

Pilot knob, with all due respect, please let me know if ANYONE responds with the type of hound you seek! I want a few of them, lol! I have a few with well above average noses,but they will open early at times. Watched three of them run with 5 others bouncing around them for 60 yards and jump a rabbit setting 10 yards out ahead of me. The others opened and ran once the rabbit was jumped, I don't know if that rabbit would have been jumped had the three big nose ones not ran it to a jump?? I will live with the early mouth for just that reason. They did not boohoo and bore, they moved it to a jump. Call it what you will,I will take it. I am a hunter first. I want them to run every rabbit they can, not just the ideal scenario races.JMO's.

BC,I could like type of dog you discribed,as long as they reguraly produce a rabbit no harm with that.The ones that I've had that could do it would pop off way to often without ever produceing anything,were mouthy in checks and if there was frost on the ground you would want to shoot them in about a hour after turning them loose.I'ed love to find a line that could do it right on a regular basis.My dogs are a little on the hot nosed tight mouthed side might try a Greenbay cross and hope for something on the bignosed conservative side.Think it will work?

[BCBeagles]

Just my opinion, but early mouth and extra mouth are two different things in my knowledge. I am not an expert by any means, but a hound that can trail jump a rabbit, whether it be 10 yards or 100 yards, is not extra mouth. in my thinking. IF and that is a big IF, they are moving the game in the proper direction to a better scent. Extra, too me, is barking in the check, barking in the same area multiple times without moving to new or better scent. I will say I have seen my own hounds bark in an area and not be able to produce the rabbit, but that is reasonably rare. No hounds are perfect that is for sure, but I will take a little too much nose as opposed to not enough.

I will whole heartedly agree with Ron that big nose and early mouth go hand in hand. Extra is there as well in some cases, I will not be dishonest and say that mine have barked and always produced a rabbit, sometimes they haven't produced. Nature of the beast.

I like a good nose and will put up with the negatives. I think the breeders that have consistantly produced a good hound to run and trial on snow have probably culled harder than any others. JMO.

[BCBeagles]

Pilot Knob,

I will have some of that type in about a year. BIG nose female with early mouth to a bark when he pulls fur male, Heavy Majer. I am anxious to see the results!! Will the blend happen?? I want to try and see!!

[fjg2]

double post

[fjg2]

I must admit this thread has been one of the more thought provoking and stimulating topics I have reviewed in awhile! Kudos to all who have participated

However I now find myself confused or perhaps awakened to the thought of the definition or summary of what "extra mouth" is to us participating.

I am of the exact opiunion as a poster above which stated by quote "
extra mouth to me, is barking in the check, barking in the same area multiple times without moving to new or better scent."

I like and value a hound which can grovel or walk a scent trail for a modest distance before the hare knows he is being pursued. I have seen many times big nosed hounds warm up a scent trail for 30-75 yds before other dogs present can chime in, most of the time you will hear the lesser nose hounds whine and stay close; eventually they too will be able to chime in! without the big nosed hound this start would not have occured though.
I wont tolerate a hound which tries to do this with a low success rate however! IMHO a hound should not open his yap unless they are fairly confident they can turn this into a pursuit of game. I would expect a hound that is able to cold track the rabbit to be successful say 3 outta 4 times at bat.
I will not tolerate a hound which yaps around on a check giving 15-20 barks per 3-4 rabbit tracks.......this drives me nuts ...reminds me of a nagging wife

I "think" some of us posting think its bad to bark on any game trail where the rabbit is not up & moving ???? am I correct in my understanding of some of you fellas ??? and I am by no means judging any of you! I have learned different geographical locations tend to greatly flavor the desirabl;e triats in a hound and also deduct bonus points from triaits held near and dear by other geographical locations.

I personally live in Upstate NY which has an identical climate as the UP of michigan (yes I have been there many times) and we cant afford the luxury of running only hare which are on the move. Many times we will go out hunting and the hare fed and moved at nite, or they havent moved much at all in days, if your hound will only use moving hare you are going to have a boring day on these challenging days.

I personally find the days when it gets really warm in winter; say 36 degrees and higher and the snow is very wet and heavy, those are the days ONLY a big nosed dog can move a hare, these type days are tuffer than 20 degrees below zero; we hunt those days too just to see if a particular hound can circle a hare, these days seldom yeild smokin gun blazin days but if the hound is steady he will bring the hare to the sights. That same dog on zero degree or low teens will make you shine with pride

We dont have many frosty grass type days; most of our conifer hunting grounds are leaves and such so I am at a loss as to why a big nosed dog can be mouthy because of frost ? I see them not mouthy when its 17 below zero??

food for thought and eager to hear the thoughts of others

[eddywilliams]

I am not tooting my horn just chatting like the rest .It is hard to find nose power with out the extra mouth or cold trailing we are fortunate here at the ridge my Tuna dog has good nose power in dust and dry and snow .I have watched him circle large rabbits and several times half grown rabbits in the field trials with a gallery in dry conditions and very hot and I have watched him run rabbits across a frozen finger lake when no other dog could and this was in front of all of the cast or group hunting .Tuna doesnt bark early or cold trail he is not perfect might once in a while make a bark out of place but not much.He has the Blu Sly breeding on bottom which is most bred for bottom end and speed for hare running I believe, he has Ranger Dan on top and Round Pond .I have a female sired by Northway Slim Jim that has good nose power in dust or snow I hav ewatched her be a fool on frost at times but for the most part she doesnt cold trail she will work an old track and drift it .Gotta love nose power it is to each his own .I watched Crytals Olympian Jett owned by Denny Dugan and Larry Hicks run a rabbit down the middle of a gravel road when no other dog could or did and was right on the line and it was a long line ,he is out of Olympus .

[littlewoody]

I am not tooting my horn just chatting like the rest .It is hard to find nose power with out the extra mouth or cold trailing we are fortunate here at the ridge my Tuna dog has good nose power in dust and dry and snow .I have watched him circle large rabbits and several times half grown rabbits in the field trials with a gallery in dry conditions and very hot and I have watched him run rabbits across a frozen finger lake when no other dog could and this was in front of all of the cast or group hunting .Tuna doesnt bark early or cold trail he is not perfect might once in a while make a bark out of place but not much.He has the Blu Sly breeding on bottom which is most bred for bottom end and speed for hare running I believe, he has Ranger Dan on top and Round Pond .I have a female sired by Northway Slim Jim that has good nose power in dust or snow I hav ewatched her be a fool on frost at times but for the most part she doesnt cold trail she will work an old track and drift it .Gotta love nose power it is to each his own .I watched Crytals Olympian Jett owned by Denny Dugan and Larry Hicks run a rabbit down the middle of a gravel road when no other dog could or did and was right on the line and it was a long line ,he is out of Olympus .

I have a blue sly male line bred which is fast and tight mouth. I got him from Bob blue sly kennel is no more.

[NorWester1]

I am not tooting my horn just chatting like the rest .It is hard to find nose power with out the extra mouth or cold trailing we are fortunate here at the ridge my Tuna dog has good nose power in dust and dry and snow .I have watched him circle large rabbits and several times half grown rabbits in the field trials with a gallery in dry conditions and very hot and I have watched him run rabbits across a frozen finger lake when no other dog could and this was in front of all of the cast or group hunting .Tuna doesnt bark early or cold trail he is not perfect might once in a while make a bark out of place but not much.He has the Blu Sly breeding on bottom which is most bred for bottom end and speed for hare running I believe, he has Ranger Dan on top and Round Pond .I have a female sired by Northway Slim Jim that has good nose power in dust or snow I hav ewatched her be a fool on frost at times but for the most part she doesnt cold trail she will work an old track and drift it .Gotta love nose power it is to each his own .I watched Crytals Olympian Jett owned by Denny Dugan and Larry Hicks run a rabbit down the middle of a gravel road when no other dog could or did and was right on the line and it was a long line ,he is out of Olympus .

Eddy, you're doing lots of breedings, how are you maintaining or advancing the nose power in your hounds without getting that extra baggage & drawbacks that plenty of folks are complaining about?
Are you breeding specifically for nose power or for a combination of traits that enable those Big Tuna dogs to run specific to the conditions you hunt?