Line Breeding vs. Out Cross

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

line breeding is the only way tom consitantly put out the same type of dog ,of course even that will vary some degree.

i have done grade dogs sorry dog to sorry dog lol it was aqll i had prioduced 3 nice dogs 2 we gave away for pets.

bred 2 good grade dogs i mean flat out rabbitr dogs ,, no pups was worth shooting truied 3 different males with that femaile she was the best jump dog i ever seen .
never a good pup ...

got into patch dogs been there ever since . i know what i will have before they are even born to a close degree lol..

[Dave Swiger]

Check out this line bred cross. As jimbo abshire says "We breedem close here in the mountains. These pups are 7 month old and my sons male you can shoot rabbits with him by his self. 8/12 common dogs in three generations.

+++++++++++++++++ Sire: IFC HAUNTED HILL SHAKER
++++++++++Sire: FTCH AMCA SNOOPY
++++++++++++++++++++++Dam: WOODLAND PRINCESS VI
++++++ Sire: YOUNGS HARE CHASING XAVIER
++++++++++++++++++++++Sire: FTCH CHAPMANS HUNTER
+++++++++ Dam: HBCH ARNOLDS SUPERRUNNIN FRECKLES
++++++++++++++++++++++Dam: GRHBCH ARNOLDS SUPER RUNNIN SHYLO

PUP


+++++++++++++++++++++++Sire: IFC HAUNTED HILL SHAKER
+++++++++++ Sire: FTCH AMCA SNOOPY
+++++++++++++++++++++++Dam: WOODLAND PRINCESS VI

++++++Dam: Redtail Kennels Little Sandy

+++++++++++++++++++++Sire: CH GRHBCH ARNOLDS LITTLE CHIP
++++++++++++Dam: GRHBCH ARNOLDS SUPER RUNNIN SHYLO
+++++++++++++++++++++++Dam: HBCH ARNOLDS LUCKY LEGS LUCY

Dave

[Keyview Beagles]

Just curious, what would be the breeding technique used to produce IFC Greenbay Butkus and IFC Greenbay Shooter?

http://lanelinebeagles.zoomshare.com/fi ... 0DAY-Z.pdf

Traits... Breed the best to the best and you get the extraordinary rather than the ordinary.

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

lets keep it simple. You take a female beagle that loves to run deer and can't be broke from it, her mother and father were
not related but they too could not be broke from running deer.

you find a male beagle that loves to run deer and can't be broke from it and is not related to the female you already have
his mother and father were deer dogs and were not related.

you breed the male deer crazy dog to the female deer crazy dog and in my opinion the pups from this cross
will be line bred deer crazy beagles

this is what i am calling line breeding traits instead of pedigrees.

the way some of you guys respond when someone tries to help is why alot of people with more knowledge
than any of us will get on here and tell there experiences on breeding or training. They just get jumped
on with both feet when there just trying to help.

[Dave Swiger]

the way some of you guys respond when someone tries to help is why alot of people with more knowledge
than any of us will get on here and tell there experiences on breeding or training. They just get jumped
on with both feet when there just trying to help. [/quote]

No Roger, when you get on here and try to BS folks is when you get called out.
The breeding example you give is pure out cross breeding and has nothing to do with inbreeding/line breeding.

You said lets keep it simple. Here one most folks in WV can relate to.

Wv boy with brown hair and blue eyes goes next door and sleeps with the next door girl that is unrelated with blue eyes and brown hair.according to you this is inbreeding....NOT

Wv boy with brown hair and blue eyes sleeps with his aunt (mothers sister) with black hair and green eyes. This is inbreeding.


Newt, The breeding may very well be traits because I see no common dogs in his three generation pedigree. This looks to be outcross breeding all the way.
Dave

[APFII]

Combination of line and outcrossing,knowing when to step out is the key,in my opinion.

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

Dave and Zach Swiger
Redtail Kennels
Berkeley Springs WV.
" If it don't jump and run its own rabbit, it doesn't eat here"
We breed rabbit dogs to rabbit dogs to get rabbit dogs

Dave read the last line in your signature. it looks like your line breeding on traits and didn't even know it.
im done with this post untill i can get to the library and get me some books on how to breed cows. then
and only then will i be able to understand how to respond to this post.

Dave, don't be mad at me Im just having some fun.
seriously thanks for the entertainment now that rabbit season is out. I guess everyone is board LOL...

[BCBeagles]

Breeding the hounds you like and enjoy is the way to go. You do have to go "outside" the box and see other hounds to know if they are truely your style, that takes time and gas money. I plan on doing that more in the future as I have done it some so far.

My current cross is a half brother sister on Shooter. Two extremely similar hounds, just happens to be they are half brother and sister. Inbreeding, I don't care if it is, I want more of the two dogs I bred.

My cross for 2013, half brother and sister on Butkus, Two extremely similar hounds, just so happens again they are half brother and sister. Inbreeding again, I don't care, I want more of them.

I will be doing a Father daughter cross in the future as well and maybe twice if it works for me. Inbreeding, again I don't care, I want more of the same.

I will, personally, "outcross", to a hound later with these inbreds, but that hound will be, TRAIT wise, the same as what I have or I am wasting my time. Line breeding on traits, I don't know if it is and don't care. I will breed for a hound that suits me and I can compete with or go and kill rabbits with, that is what matters.

All welcome to come run with me anytime, no excuses. We will have a good time, running maybe not as good as what I read about on the internet, but who cares!!! LOL..

Good running to all.

[Dave Swiger]

Roger, first Im not mad. Second Line breeding and inbreeding is all about genetics. Go back and read my first post. My first priority is breeding real rabbit dogs. I breed rabbit dogs to rabbit dogs to get rabbit dogs...this is trait breeding, but on top of that I breed close relatives of the dog that does the job that I desire. In this case its Sandy. I have checked on all the dogs in the above pedigree most are notable, so were outstanding and a few were great. I chose to bred to X because he has the nearly same breeding and he is a rabbit dog.

Final statement: We as Beaglers choose to breed dogs that have the traits that we demand for the type of rabbit hunting we do. When we find a dog that suits us we want to continue that type of dog(traits). I choose to inbreed my dogs to tighten the gene pool and try to lesson the chances of other traits, that I dont like, into my bloodline. I do this by breeding close relatives.

Dave

Jim, you will be facing the same problem that everyone who inbreeds animals. What do you make your next cross on...do you cross another dog in your family tree or out cross. Remember if you out cross on your inbred line you have just diluted the gene pool that you worked to lesson. My choice is to breed back to the sub line of my bloodline. Shaker is the dominate line now, but I plan to breed back to an Arnolds chip dog, in staying in the family tree.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Now Jim i think your breeding program is alright with me , and secondly you are making it so you will live with it. I think people are afraid at times to get tight for fear of two heads or something, my dad was one of the first to bring Semital Cattle east across the Mississippi, they were gentle giants and nieghbors came from miles around pretty neat times.
Anyway i just recall how my father was breeding years ago and it seemed to work pretty well, i know it was brought up so with that being said I just dont see a reason too outcross very often, but if you do go straight to something thats bred just as tight. It has worked for years so why change? There are certain lines people have poured years into that i personally cant stand for what ever reason and there is some lines that interest me. There is just certain traits i personally will not stand, no heart is towards the top, if a dog shows me several days of being constantly pounded they can stick it out i can overlook one that may growl at a dog occasionally.
If somebody can show me a reason to change after all the years i am encouraging you too do so, i doubt it. As far as breeding is concerned take a look a Dexter Reffits breeding kinda scary but well thought thru, i have always believed Dexter took another man line and made it accell, i will often refer to titles but the bottom line is litter after litter dexter is producing silently some of the most all around dogs in the east.
And jim i personally like the Father to daughter cross if ya wanna lock in some serious traits, Good luck in your program

[Hot Nose]

Thanks all! Really helpful.

[mdbeagler]

lets keep it simple. You take a female beagle that loves to run deer and can't be broke from it, her mother and father were
not related but they too could not be broke from running deer.

you find a male beagle that loves to run deer and can't be broke from it and is not related to the female you already have
his mother and father were deer dogs and were not related.

you breed the male deer crazy dog to the female deer crazy dog and in my opinion the pups from this cross
will be line bred deer crazy beagles

this is what i am calling line breeding traits instead of pedigrees.

the way some of you guys respond when someone tries to help is why alot of people with more knowledge
than any of us will get on here and tell there experiences on breeding or training. They just get jumped
on with both feet when there just trying to help.

I would say this is not linebreeding but the next best thing to get the desired traits you want "Breeding alike traits to alike traits".
You are doubling up on desired traits with unrelated dogs to produce a desired result.
I think this can be effective if you consistently breed alike traits to alike traits, it may not be as predictable as line breeding
but more predictable than just breeding good dog to good dog without consideration of alike traits.
I have breed dogs with alike traits, inbreed, linebreed and bred dogs that were total outcrosses with different traits
to try adding something to the pups that one or the other parent lacked.
Each type of breeding was done for different reasons: example inbreed to see what flaws would show up and to let me know
how tight the line could be crossed and what bad traits to expect down the road, and what percentage may need to be culled.
I have had some success with all of the above, but the idea is to reproduce consistence.
If linebreeding for several generations and an outcross is needed, then I would go to another family of linebreed hounds with
"alike traits" to maintain the desired traits.
In the end it's all a crap shoot some things just stack the odds in your favor a little more to get what you want.

[mdbeagler]

Breeding the hounds you like and enjoy is the way to go. You do have to go "outside" the box and see other hounds to know if they are truely your style, that takes time and gas money. I plan on doing that more in the future as I have done it some so far.

My current cross is a half brother sister on Shooter. Two extremely similar hounds, just happens to be they are half brother and sister. Inbreeding, I don't care if it is, I want more of the two dogs I bred.

My cross for 2013, half brother and sister on Butkus, Two extremely similar hounds, just so happens again they are half brother and sister. Inbreeding again, I don't care, I want more of them.

I will be doing a Father daughter cross in the future as well and maybe twice if it works for me. Inbreeding, again I don't care, I want more of the same.

I will, personally, "outcross", to a hound later with these inbreds, but that hound will be, TRAIT wise, the same as what I have or I am wasting my time. Line breeding on traits, I don't know if it is and don't care. I will breed for a hound that suits me and I can compete with or go and kill rabbits with, that is what matters.

All welcome to come run with me anytime, no excuses. We will have a good time, running maybe not as good as what I read about on the internet, but who cares!!! LOL..

Good running to all.

Hey Jim I have a double Shooter cross too that should be born in about a week.
Half brother half sister cross.
We will see what happens with this cross.

[Kenny VanHoose]

The stigma of deformaties and extra body parts on so associated with breedind relatives in my opinion is extremely over exaggerated. I would like to hear of any first hand accounts of this. I think this was created to keep some boys from messing around with their sisters

[BCBeagles]

Don,

Keep me updated on that cross. I would like to know your resultsl. I know you have some quality hounds you bred or you wouldn't breed them. Take care.