doe rabbit scent

[19rabbit52]

I have seen many times where dogs can't smell a rabbit where it was shot at. Get on down the line a little and they smell it just fine. I also see times like last Monday where dogs are running rabbits just fine. Then I jump one and try to put dogs on track and they can't smell it one bit. I don't know what it is, but the scent on all rabbits is not equal.

[Alabama John]

Nature protects the young.

If baby rabbits or the doe carried scent, all around that nest would be tracks of coming and going and Coyotes could smell them a long way off.
There wouldn't be anymore rabbits. Same with natures camouflage, hawks have a hard time spotting the young or the nests.

WE scold our dogs if one wants to run a baby rabbit. Its same a trash to us. We want one that will RUN!

[RunninHard]

Ky Hunter, 19rabbit52 and Gwyoung, I Agree

[gwyoung]

19rabbit52, This is another example of rabbits holding their scent, the rabbit will release shortly, walk them down the line a short distance and they will pick up the trail. How many of you have noticed that if you see a rabbit sitting, the rabbit identifies you, then jumps the dogs have a hard time running him right off, he tightened up. But if the dogs jump a rabbit and he does not see a person then he doesn't tighten up and the dogs run him immediately.Apparently rabbits are stressed more by people than they are by dogs, This is why when a rabbit is being chased by dogs runs up to you the dogs often have a hard time at that spot, you tightened him up.

[Tsa la gi]

gwyoung, kyhunter,
I have seen the same thing, even if it has not been shot at,when it kicks into another gear it does something to it`s scent. Kieth of Big head kennels missed a rabbit and the hounds includeing his could not run it after that.I now call that patjh the gun path and laugh every time I walk past the spot. We claim it is the powder smell .
At 71 I have killed a few and missed a lot ,most times the do have trouble finding a good track. Some time the go 50 yds before they ever open.
Guess I`m gonna have to buy me a internet wizzzzzard
dog.

[Rabbit Fever]

I have been chasen snowshoes for 25 years now, and can honestly say yes to that ? During this time of the year 99% of the Hare we shoot are Bucks. About the only time we get a female if it,s a side jummper or a kickout. I know most of you hunt cottontails and probably don't believe this but it's true. I have witnessed this way to many times, where we kicked out a Hare while walking. put a hound on it and acts like nothing was even there. this subject comes up every spring. post this ? on The Hunted Hare and see what you get. about the same answer I'm giving you.

[Newt]

Nature protects the young.
WE scold our dogs if one wants to run a baby rabbit. Its same a trash to us. We want one that will RUN!

If the baby rabbit has no scent or your dogs can't smell it, why be concerned? I believe that experienced dogs learn to ignore baby rabbits just as they learn to ignore squirrels, birds and rats.


A few years back I gave a pup by FC Bucks Branch Kalagha to a friend. We were out at the beagle club with three or four other beaglers, one being the late Jim McFall. McFall was a UBGF style trialer and kept Shorts Pro bloodline. The pup was about four months old. The dogs were running a rabbit then there was a check. Then the pup started opening and the other dogs checked him out then moved on. The pup continued to move a line and the thought crossed my mine that he was making a line. Then we saw a baby rabbit about six inches long scoot out of the grass. Maybe the pup didn't know he wasn't supposed to smell baby rabbits. Maybe the others couldn't smell it.

I dpn't want my dogs running baby rabbits either. It's a waste of time that the dogs could be pounding one around in circles. However, I do know that some dogs can run them and some dogs have the ability to find their nests, although, like you I would rather my dogs didn't bother the young. I would rather they all live to provide entertainment next Fall.


As was mentioned, does with young run different than bucks. A few weeks back the dogs jumped a rabbit in a big thicket and had a hard time keeping it moving. I was thinking, it must be one of those does guys are always talking about. Then it left the thicket and started making big circles and the dogs drove it round and round for about an hour.

GW your theory on rabbits withholding scent has one BIG flaw. What could be more stressful than after being chased for over an hour, when the hound starts closing the gap, and the the old rabbit begins to run out of tricks, starts squatting, and they jump him again. Do you think he is stressed? Why doesn't he hold his scent?

[S.R.Patch]

I've never bought into the on/off switch of scent theory.

I'm more to believe in a "cloaking" of the scent by the fear reflex. The oils from the glands are longer lasting, but if this oil scent were to be change by a sudden burst of adrenalin from the adrenal gland causing the acids to change the oil glands excretion complex, the scent could change to something not recognizable by the hound until the adrenal level returned to some normal state. This would allow the oil complex to return to normal and the hounds be able to recognize the scent again, some short time after becoming regulated.
I've said, a hound sees the world as much through it's nose as we do through our eyes. If the blue line on your GPS tracker for a hound suddenly turned green because an influx of yellow was introduced, you would become confused whether you were looking at your hound or not on the screen. This is the way I believe hounds become confused on the line when the rabbit "tightens up" frightfully from being turned or shot at by us. The scent is changed or "cloaked" by an adrenalin burst and becomes something unrecognizable to the hound other than what he was chasing before.
Just one of my wacky ideas or thoughts...

The scent glands on the young of a species are not fully developed, so they are seemingly scentless. The doe rabbit limits her trips to the nest for feeding only so as not to lead predators a scent trail.

In my talks with those who run to catch and no guns are used, the belief that the oil excretion from the glands can be exhausted, essentially "running dry" after hours of running, is still upheld. A healthy hare who's nature it is to out distance hounds, slowly weakening on scent after a long run and if not caught shortly, seeming to vanish thereafter at a total loss. just their reasoning... They will also tell you, that a hound that becomes winded from a long run or being out of shape, can't smell a line of scent till it recoups. IDK just some thoughts of others.

[Buckeye Blues]

I have seen many times where dogs can't smell a rabbit where it was shot at. Get on down the line a little and they smell it just fine. I also see times like last Monday where dogs are running rabbits just fine. Then I jump one and try to put dogs on track and they can't smell it one bit. I don't know what it is, but the scent on all rabbits is not equal.

I think the reason dogs lose the scent at the point where you shoot is because all the burnt powder that is spread accross the ground. I think it ruins the scenting in that area.

[Newt]

Patch your points are as relevant as any.

"They will also tell you, that a hound that becomes winded from a long run or being out of shape, can't smell a line of scent till it recoups. IDK just some thoughts of others."

Some famous person once stated, "Exhaustion makes cowards of us all" so he made sure his football players were in peak condition. The Packers won several championships while he was HC.

Any one who hasn't seen hounds just quit when they were in poor condition should take cottontail hounds and run hare with a pack of well conditioned hare hounds.

[bbg]

Ky, hunter, You are on the right track. rabbits are able to hold their scent under stressful conditions. You are correct in your observations. Anyone ever notice that dogs sometimes have trouble picking up the scent of a rabbit after it has been shot and missed. ( The guys who have the super dogs who can smell any rabbit anytime probably haven't noticed it because of their dog power and I suspect they never miss either.) The rabbit is holding his scent due to stress. When Doe rabbits have young ones they have a natural concern for their safety, when being pursued at this time they are easily stressed and repeatedly hold their scent or tighten up. Makes them difficult to run. The guys who claim doe rabbits can always be ran successfully cannot say that their dogs ever have the slightest hint of a problem after one is shot and missed , they really don't know what I am talking about when I say that as they have never seen it happen to their dogs. the scent holding is the same, does with young simply do it time and time again.

I usually try not to be negative on these boards but come on. You guys need to try some different dogs.

[gwyoung]

bbg, glad your dogs can run any rabbit anytime, congratulations on your hounds. Are you saying they never came across a rabbit they couldn't run, never had a problem after one was shot at and missed, never had a problem with one that was jumped by you. What is their bloodline, I assume everyone with this line will have the same experience. I would like to try some of them and talk to others and see if their experiences are the same as yours, is there any reason their experience with this bloodline would not be the same as yours.
Newt, No flaw in my theory, I explained what could be more stressful than a dog running a rabbit for over an hour. people jumping rabbits, people shooting at rabbits, Does with young that need to survive. I don't think when you run one for an hour the rabbit is running full blast and is scared of being caught at this time . if you are in front of the rabbit you will see him at times stopping and licking himself and generally just loping along. Your dogs are not doing the equivalent of a sight chase for an hour. Are they stressed, some are I am sure but generally not to the degree of being shot at. Do you think you would be stressed more if you were shot at OR chased by something that you could get away from at anytime simply by ducking into a hole. Also since you mentioned Kalagha hounds all of my hounds are kalagha with a little bit of Mr Bill thrown in, they will have trouble with rabbits after the shot on some occassions, will have trouble on a rabbit I jump on occassion and will have trouble on Doe rabbits also. I believe every dog that I have seen run in the past fifty years would have the same problem. My dogs don't have much trouble on dry gravel roads. pavement for short distances, dry hard crusted snow where you can't leave a boot print on, So I think they have some nose power.
SRPATCH, " Cloaking of Scent" What do you think they change their scent to mimic, I am sorry but I don't have enough imiganation to buy that theory,Scent simply is lessened due to the tightening of gland. Much easier than changing it to mimic wildflowers , wouldn't you say.

[Newt]

newt, No flaw in my theory, I explained what could be more stressful than a dog running a rabbit for over an hour. people jumping rabbits, people shooting at rabbits, Does with young that need to survive. I don't think when you run one for an hour the rabbit is running full blast and is scared of being caught at this time . if you are in front of the rabbit you will see him at times stopping and licking himself and generally just loping along. Your dogs are not doing the equivalentt of a sight chase for an hour. Also since you mentioned Kalagha

How can they catch a rabbit if it is not a sight chase? A couple months back I had an old bitch and two pups less than a year old out running. They ran a rabbit for about an hour. Eventually the rabbit started squatting. They would jump him again and there would be a sight chase. They did that several times and I realized that they were going to catch the rabbit so I hurried to try to stop them. Then I heard the ten month old pup screaming as if she had a sight race. She did and by the time I caught her she had caught the rabbit. I enjoy your posts, but I'm not buying the "cutting off scent theory".

Hmmm? Well maybe it wasn't from Kalagha, maybe my hounds got their noses from the bitch line?
I'm not claiming that my dogs noses are any better than anyone else's hounds, just relaying my experiences with my hounds and the conclusion that I have drawn. They don't lose many rabbits and I can't remember the last time they jumped one that they didn't circle. I'm a senior citizen so I have an excuse if someone else remembers differently. LOL

[dog]

I really dont give it alot of thought or research , I take my dogs out and run them , if they can pound a couple rabbits for anywhere between 30 min and an hour and a half or more i know they can run rabbits , if the next one they cant get going i know its not because they dont know how to run a rabbit ,i know they are far from great but they know how to run , they just proved that , i just go find one they can run and enjoy it , i try my hardest not to make my dog running work , Lol

[gwyoung]

newt, I didn't say they did not see the rabbit at times during the chase , I said they are not stressed for an hour on an hours run because running one for an hour is not the equivalent of an hours sight chase which would probably stress them a lot more right before they got ate. The rabbit is not running full tilt stressed out for an hour, he can hole at anytime and he knows it. He does on occassion get into trouble on his squatting maneuver, and he will stiffen up abruptly and get caught at times . As far as dogs catching rabbits I would be surprised if there was anyone on this board who has not had dogs catch rabbits. As far as the pup you mentioned maybe getting his nose from the bitch side instead of from Kalagha, perhaps so, but I could not speak to that as you did not mention the bitch side, you mentioned kalagha in a manner which made me think perhaps you thought the nose power came from him, so I answered in that direction. I understand if you do not believe the tightening up theory, that is your perogative and I certainly don't get upset at people who choose not to believe anything. But, so I inderstand your opinion correctly, are you saying it is all nose power and small rabbits, doe rabbits and buck rabbits all can be ran well by a dog with a good nose and the idea that a dog with a good nose would have trouble after the shot, on a rabbit jumped by a person, or on a doe with a litter is ridiculous. not trying to start anything but I find it hard to believe that after forty some years of following beagles of different bloodlines and some field champions to boot I have never saw a dog with a good nose. It seems like a lot of long time hunters are in the same boat as I am, Their dogs simply don't have that good of a nose. How about some of you guys with these dogs who do not have any problem after the shot, can run any rabbit anytime ,doe with a nest or when a person jumps one or it changes directions abruptly after running upon a person, post your breeding at least for me, I am always looking to trade up, and dogs like these would certainly be a step up for me. Thanks,