Check Your Patch Pedigree`s

[bigdogpace]

HOW PURE IS PURE IIF WE ONLY KNEW HOWMANY PAPERS HAD EVER BEEN SLAPED ON GRADE DOGS HOW MANY BREEDERS SAID PUPS WERE OUT OF 1 DOG WHEN N FACT THEY WERE OUT OF ANOTHER HONEST MISTAKES I DONT THINK SO HAD AMAN TRYTO GET A PAPER FROM ME YEARS AGO MY FEMALE WAS LOST HE WANTED TO PUT PAPERS ON AGRADE DOG TO GET HER BRED. I WANT SAY WHAT HE AND I WENT THROUGH WHEN I GOT THROUGH WITH HIM THEY R CROOKED PEOPLE N THIS WORLD. IT MAKES ME UPSET AND WONDER HOW PURE IS PURE

[cojax]

THANKS CHUCK FOR BRINGING THIS TO EVERYONES ATTENTION I MAY HAVE SOME HOUNDS THAT FALL IN TO THIS GIGANTIC LIE. WILL THE AKC NOTIFY PEOPLE IF THEY REALIZE THAT THE HOUNDS THEY HAVE ARE PART OF THIS LIE. THANKS AGAIN CHUCK, I KNEW I LIKED YOU AND NOW I KNOW WHY. COJAX

[Keith C.]

So what happens to everyone that has dogs out of the fraudulent dogs.
Do they all lose their registration?
Are they no longer eligible to run AKC trials?
Keith

[Tsa la gi]

Thanks Cojax,Keith,and any one else I do not have the answer to that.I have heard they pull the papers and all championships.All I know is any thing traceing back to Frosty is garde. Sad huh.

[peytonbeagles]

Some real stand up guys, to stand up and put it out there, darn shame the time and money put into raising hounds up to find out a jay-leg has hacked it up.

[Skint' Back Kennels]

Chuck I sure hate that a crook falsified the papers and you cant register them pups...aint no telling how many dogs that this applies to.

[Shotgun John]

When something like this happens, does AKC notify everyone that has dogs registered out of these dogs?

[S.R.Patch]

At what age did you buy Sport? and from whom?
What I'm getting at is, who had the Sire's info in order to fill in the litter application papers?
I'm always having to go back and look for the "issue date" on the papers in order to complete the application.

Were any of Bredemeire "stolen" hounds ever recovered? I remember there was a $10,000 reward offered but never heard anything from it.

I think with DNA, some parentage can be established from these root hounds.

My friend is going through parentage issue's with the CKC also, so I know it's very frustrating and disappointing.
Good luck to everyone involved.

I would breed some bitches to help replace some of those disappointed from this mix-up if needed. There's no reason for the good Patch name to suffer and I hope some of the other good Patch folks would help me right this wrong. For myself, If you would be willing to pay for the registration fees only, I'm sure we can get you a puppy replacement. I don't know what others may require, but I'm sure we can get some help, there are good people out there...

[Randy Phipps]

Fellers,
I hope everyone has done their homework and this is legit...Seeing as how all of this is damaging one of the most honest beaglers I've dealt with and consider a friend. Not to mention all the good registered rabbit hounds that could potentially become good grade rabbit dogs. I've got a male and a litter from the male(of potentially grade pups) on the way that has or will have the Frosty dog in the bloodline. Not counting the female I sold or the two litters of pups out of the female that has Frosty in the bloodline. Is AKC going to contact everyone that has dogs affected by this when and if they officially prove or disprove this accusation? I'd kind of like to hear something official from them before I start making phone calls to folks I've unknowingly sold potential grade dogs and start a stampede..
You would think with all the money spent with AKC registering dogs, litters and DNA'ing that contacting affected parties would be the least they could do........... I personally checked the AKC website this morning and found that the Frosty dog is still showing as a registered AKC dog????????? If this accusation is proven accurate I agree that the people involved should be held liable and the same token if this is a false accusation. I don't know about everyone else but I'm finding it a hard pill to swallow calling folks I've dealt with and giving them this news. I've got some good hounds but none I'd knowingly and willingly be-smudge my name and reputation for.

[mitchell cates]

i am kinda confused about all of this does this mean that the female i have that has frosty patch as her grandparent will be just a grade dog plus the litter of 6 month old pups i got that are doin great but have this frosty dog in them will be just grade dogs to

[bill huttozac]

For sure, this is not an isolated case. The following is from the AKC's Secretary's Page, dated October, 2010.

"During the month of August, 2010 the DNA program resulted in the correction of 251 litter registrations, effecting 430 registered dogs. Additionally, the registrations of 186 litters, including 248 registered dogs were converted to conditional registrations and the registration of 7 litters was cancelled as a result of impure breeding".

From the above, it is obvious that there are more than a few crooks dealing with dogs. Some people will do despicable things for a few dollars and appear not to care about their own reputation or how they damage others. In my opinion, these acts are criminal and justice can only be had in a court of law. Granted, the injured can never be made whole, but some satisfaction can be gained.

[Tsa la gi]

In reference to any statements made towards me and what is going on,I have no resentment towards anyone,I knew there would be some. I have already called and sent e/m`s to owner`s of dogs of this lineage that I sold.
It is very hard to notify some one that their dog`s are not reg after buying them in good faith, and own a dog for 4years and find this out.

In reference to a statement made,Maybe we should have talked to some one,Well he was talked to.

I also talked to the person whose name is on the Breeder`s Certificate. He called me the night this was posted at 9:34 pm call was lost. 9:36 he called again, He was polite as was I, conversation was as follows and can be disputed,this is only my side.

He proceded to say that he had got Bonnie from Elmer McKinney and Billy Breedmeier a man named Martin,and Kenny Cool
had the dog.He was a long time getting her back and only after his Dad raised heck with Billy at a field trial. They brought the dog back droped her off in the yard and said she was bred. Therefore Frosty and Digger. I said well your name is on the breeder`s certificate what did they do sign your name.?
If you knew this you never should have proceded with the paper work. Seenin as how you did not do the actual breeding.
The last thing he said was I have a good reputation, have good dogs and don`t want my name drug through the mud.

Young man you started the mud slide 13 years ago now its caught up to you.

[Swampman]

SR,
I bought Sport from Bill right around his 3rd birthday in 1993, and had him until his death in 2004.
He is buried on the hill overlooking my backyard.

I do not know how all the information on the litter registration was acquired, but I do know that it was not acquired from or signed by me!

Randy,
Neither Chuck or myself has identified the "breeder", so I'm curious how anyones reputation has been damaged?
Also, if it is who you think it is, I'm curious how he would get the distinction of "one of the most honest beaglers" you have ever met?
I had to gather all the documentation from the AKC, then write a letter explaining to them the situation and return all the documentation back to them. They told me once they receive all the information, which in reality they already have, they will investigate and make a decision. All of that was just sent back this week.
Sounds like an act of congress to me, but that is the process.
So, I'm glad that you have had such quick response from the AKC, that you expected to see frosty removed from the records so quickly.
Personally I have not, it usually takes about six weeks just to get registration papers back from them in the mail.

This was not an easy thing to bring out, but a lot of people have been duped, and they have the right to know.

To question if the homework was done before this was posted, all you need to do is go back and read all of the posts.

Now, I know that no one except Chuck and myself have seen the actual documentation, and the "breeder" when he filled it out of course, so I can understand some questioning, but believe me when AKC is finished, I will post for all to see, and you will see without a doubt.

One last thing, think of the integrity it takes to notify everyone that you had sold dogs or pups to and openly relinquish your papers without AKC making a final decision yet. It takes the integrity of a MAN to know that no matter how anyone tries to spin this, the breeding was falsified and right is right.
Chuck, you are that man.

Swamp

[Randy Phipps]

Swampman,
It is fairly obvious who this was pointed towards simply by using the full registered names of the dogs concerned as well as some phone conversations and P.M.'s after this post. As far as the statement about " one of the most honest beaglers I've met" is based on past dealings with the man. He was one of the very few that I dealt with that was completely honest when describing abilities and shortcomings of his hounds that were forsale. I went through many so called top knotch trash broke hounds before meeting the man and finally finding a rabbit hound like I was looking for. I know of many others who have received the same treatment from the man. That is why I'm having problems believing all of this without some other proof than what I'm seeing on the World Wide Web...
As stated in my above post I've got one male and a litter on the way that has or will have the now questionable pedigree."I can assure you none of these will leave my place until the truth comes out about this mess one way or the other". The cross was made to keep a couple of pups out of the male who has proven himself as a fine rabbit hound anyways.
What is sticking in my crawl is the fact if all this is proven true I've unknowingly sold a littermate female to my male and a litter of pups out of her as registered dogs. Which means I've got to go with hat in hand and tell these folks that I've ripped them off..........So yeah I'm just a little ticked off. As of right now I'm not mad at any individuals just the situation I'm now in.
As far as my statement about AKC if they have enough info. to confirm it for you and Chuck you'd think they could at least update their website and notify the rest of us we have some questionable pedigree's and block potential dog or puppy sales of this line until they investigate it, have meetings or whatever they do. This coming from the fact they don't seem to have problems filling up my mailbox and email inbox with "Special Offers" and other Spam.
I also noticed on my "so called" AKC Certified Pedigree that Sport was DNA'd. Was there no dogs from this litter in question DNA'd?

[Swampman]

Lets' see, your saying that by using the registered name of the dog in question, I am calling out the "breeder"?
So, I bought a female pup from Chuck Romine, the sire is Mike Eberles Gunner dog and the dam is Chucks Shantie female.
The name of the pup has MY kennel name, so according to your view, I would be the breeder????

Remember what they say when you ASSUME.

Tell me, if you were the one that was being accused of this act, and you were innocent, wouldn't you be on here denying it and explaining your side??
I know I would be!

Again, I called the "breeder" over two weeks ago. He told me that the frosty dog was old and possibly dead in the late 90's, when in fact the litter registration from the AKC states in was born in 12-97.
When I informed him that I was the owner of Sport and that this cross never took place, he then tried to say it was someone else's fault and took my phone number and told me he would get back to me by the weekend with the correct date of birth. Needless to say I have not heard from him since!

I gave him ample opportunity to explain and/or come clean, he chose silence.

Honestly, I have never met the man, wouldn't know him he he came up to me and said boo. I don't know his age, but thought, if he was a very young man when this occured and was talked into it by a well known breeder as being ok, this all could have went down in a different way.
We could have approached the AKC, explained that it was a misguided mistake and possibly got off with maybe a small fine. He could have done his homework, contacted all who are affected by this (I admit, no small task) and tried to show us all his remourse, but instead he chose to deny and point fingers at others (to Chuck and myself) and silence to everyone else.

Other than to/from Chuck,I have not made or received any PM's or phone calls where I divuldged the "breeders" name.

As for you or anyone else, no one ripped anyone off except for the "breeder". He is the only one, unless others knew about this, that ripped anyone off.
I would think and hope that most will understand that this is one mans fault and that the rest of you that have hounds tracing back and bred them are also victims.

Yes, Sport was DNA profiled by the AKC, and if the frosty dog was all well, it should be a slam dunk for the AKC.
The documents with the way they are filled out and the signature are a sure give away also.

One more thing, I am not saying the man does not have good dogs, what I am saying is he cheated on papers once, so all dogs tracing back to that falsified cross are grade. It's sad to think this but if he was willing to do it once, who's to say it hasn't happened before or since?

Swamp