A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
hey, you will never please everyone all of the time, and your better off if you dont try. I started running field trials february 3rd last year, and heard all kinds of both compliments, and criticisms on my beagles and they all have champion blood lines, both field and show.
I had a man at the club that I belong to, saw me pull a dog out of the pack because he was being bullheaded, I took him over to the truck and tossed his ass in the kennel box and headed back to the pack, (he hates when I do that and he's smart enough to know why I did it, and wont be too quik to do it again.) and this guy told me if he had a dog that he didnt like how it worked with others he'd get rid of em. he then proceded to tell me about these pups he had for sale......so happens 2 days later that same dog beat his dog in an spo forum trial and I told him "I think I'll keep him".
I rarely get on these boards because people can be so mean, but can't resist making comment on this. Jim and I have bred the Jack of all Trades line for 14 years. During this time we have made a variety crosses from total outcrosses to having 4 crosses of Jack. Of all of the breedings, I know of three pups that have had crooked legs, so yes, it can happen. Is it enough to make me stop breeding the line? I don't think so. With the wide range of faults and defects that can come out over the years, I think this is a tolerable number for me. And that is all we can go by- what WE the breeder can live with. I'm willing to bet the pup with 4 crosses of Jack will be running the fur off a rabbit @ six months. Slightly short ears shouldn't really inhibit it's ability that much...may even cut down on wind resistence! Enjoy your pup, and don't be bothered by negative comments. All the genetics are there for the makings of a good one!
This entire topic makes me laugh. It shows the ignorance of a good number of breeders on this and other Beagling forums. Three, four, five,six crosses of any one dog in a pedigree is inbreeding, nothing less. Whenever you have an inbred hound, faults that are in EVERY line will show up intensified. Its has nothing to do with Jack, in particular. It has nothing to do with Branko dogs. It has to do with genetics, and I see many of the posters here lack even a basic understanding of the subject. Yes, if you inbreed, and the dog(s) being inbred upon carry the trait for crooked legs or shyness, you will see an increase in the amount of pups being born with those faults.
Because EVERY SINGLE DOG has faults, and even if that dog DOES NOT HAVE THAT FAULT HIMSELF, if his great grandmother on his father's side had or carried the gene for that fault, he can pass it on to his offspring.
Yes, faults do exist, in MY lines, and in YOUR lines. Deny them, and we get nowhere. I don't care if one pup has straight legs or 50 do. If we are getting a majority of inbred pups with problems we can either stop the inbreeding or cull mercilessly. Otherwise this breed is gone to Hell.
I was beginning to think I was the only one in beagling to carry that view guest. I had completely given up on posting on this board. There must be two of us. LOL
Rob’s Ranger Rabbit Hunter (Lefty)
Rose City Quad King’s
DogPatch Fly
I have very little expierence with breeding beagles and will be real honest and up front with that right now. I think I have only been around two or three grade dogs breedings in my life time where there was more hope than real hard accurate research done. Last year with my grade dogs every time I went to the woods I was miserable. The conditions had to be just so to get a run and it really wore on me. I vowed that I would make one more attempt to get some dogs I could live with or I would be out of beagles the rest of my life. I started searching pedigrees and information on the internet for months. I carefully took into consideration several factors before buying a pup. I look at the line and gathered as much info as possible before buying a pup, I looked at location where I would have to travel, I looked at the breeder and there willingness to be honest and up front with us, I looked to see if I could watch the parents run or talk to several sources that had. After careful examination of all these things and several other factors not named I chose to go to a kennel that had succesfully line bred Jack stuff for years. I believe the first day there I had only talked to them on the internet they gave me the good and bad of linebreeding Jack. The were honest and up front about the traits they had successfully bred in there particular kennel. Now I am fortunate enough to have to line bred dogs of from Jack of All Trades that when I go to the woods I smile all the way there and all the way back and I think that is what is important. Its not what you have that I care about its what I have that matters to me. If I like what I run I dont give a rat's A!@ what you think. I have taken my male out the last two weeks almost every day 12-18" of snow depinding on where we were and how much the snow had settled and anywhere from 10-30 degrees in MI. There was one day that he didnt successfully circle a rabbit and it was -5 with a hard crust on the snow. If you ask me linebred Jack works if done right. It may not work for you but it works for me.
Next you who thinks outcrossing works. I would totally agree if you looking for a super dog I would say outcross. You may not have the cosistency that linebreeding has but if you look at most of the big stud dogs today there seems to be several of them outcrossed. I have no problem with linebreeding as long as the breeders are ready to cull and are honest about the bad traits in the line. Maybe I was just lucky and found a decent reputable breeder that served my right. Whatever the case my linebred dogs are staying here because they make me happy. They may not be any better or worse than your dogs but they suit the bill that I am willing to pay.
Good day and good running to all linebred or outcrossed
hounds... hare.... hunter.... bang... what gets better than that.
SMITH BROS. BEAGLES
KRIS SMITH
517-881-0353
Anonymous wrote:This entire topic makes me laugh. It shows the ignorance of a good number of breeders on this and other Beagling forums. Three, four, five,six crosses of any one dog in a pedigree is inbreeding, nothing less. Whenever you have an inbred hound, faults that are in EVERY line will show up intensified. Its has nothing to do with Jack, in particular. It has nothing to do with Branko dogs. It has to do with genetics, and I see many of the posters here lack even a basic understanding of the subject. Yes, if you inbreed, and the dog(s) being inbred upon carry the trait for crooked legs or shyness, you will see an increase in the amount of pups being born with those faults.
Because EVERY SINGLE DOG has faults, and even if that dog DOES NOT HAVE THAT FAULT HIMSELF, if his great grandmother on his father's side had or carried the gene for that fault, he can pass it on to his offspring.
Yes, faults do exist, in MY lines, and in YOUR lines. Deny them, and we get nowhere. I don't care if one pup has straight legs or 50 do. If we are getting a majority of inbred pups with problems we can either stop the inbreeding or cull mercilessly. Otherwise this breed is gone to Hell.
I agree with you that if the majority of inbred pups had problems then they should not be bred.With line bred Jack dogs I have not had the problems you speak of. Answer me one simple question?After all the line breeding I have seen and done on Jack of all trades why don't I see the crooked front legs that you talk about?I've seen countless whole litters of line bred Jack dogs and have yet to see the problems you mention?I believe very strongly in what I see not what I hear.Sincerly,haredog
Seem to me that this one is about to have as much crying in it as the free beagle post a few weeks ago. Why cant we just let someone breed his dogs and quit thinking that everyone has to have the same opinion as we do or their wrong! Of course I have to say haredog it seems to me that buy starting this post you may just be itching for a good cotroversy.
TickedDog wrote:Seem to me that this one is about to have as much crying in it as the free beagle post a few weeks ago. Why cant we just let someone breed his dogs and quit thinking that everyone has to have the same opinion as we do or their wrong! Of course I have to say haredog it seems to me that buy starting this post you may just be itching for a good cotroversy.
me starting this post?This goes back to where it was posted on some poor guys post trying to sell a litter of pups post where some people were informing everyone thet large amount of linebreed Jack pups had crooked front legs.I only posted a picture of my linebreed Jack pup showing that they don't have crooked front legs.I have not encounterd this problem at all.I made my post to show what I have and people can see the truth.Sincerly,haredog
Dana Fisk wrote:I rarely get on these boards because people can be so mean, but can't resist making comment on this. Jim and I have bred the Jack of all Trades line for 14 years. During this time we have made a variety crosses from total outcrosses to having 4 crosses of Jack. Of all of the breedings, I know of three pups that have had crooked legs, so yes, it can happen. Is it enough to make me stop breeding the line? I don't think so. With the wide range of faults and defects that can come out over the years, I think this is a tolerable number for me. And that is all we can go by- what WE the breeder can live with. I'm willing to bet the pup with 4 crosses of Jack will be running the fur off a rabbit @ six months. Slightly short ears shouldn't really inhibit it's ability that much...may even cut down on wind resistence! Enjoy your pup, and don't be bothered by negative comments. All the genetics are there for the makings of a good one!
Thank you for all the kind words.I can hardly wait to start him.Sincerly,haredog
