Field Champion Titles watered down abit?

[Bunnyblaster]

God forbid someone might actually have to lose...............does everything have to be "everyone's a winner?"

Being dishonest just so you don't hurt someone's feeling is still being dishonest. And I don't remember "fair" being everyone gets a chance to win. Fair is fair and that's all there is to it...........win or lose.

[big mike 50]

Amen!!! My buddy was coaching a pee wee football team this fall and his defense had 5 shutouts in that many games so he bought all of the defensive players a Gatoraid. The parents of the boys on offense pitched a fit and made the kids on defense give up their Gatoraid. I know this has nothing to do with it but this everyone wins crap is killing America.

[Jamie Rice]

Doesn't matter whether you have 10 entries or 80 entries if you have a judge that doesn't know their behind from a hole in the wall judging. When you have judges judging trials that have winners packs that spend more time off the rabbit than on it, you're going to have a watered down champion. Continuing to run field champions that place under guys like this isn't going to improve the watered down title. You're going to continue to have inferior champions defeat even more inferior non champions. More ignorant judges today than dishonest ones in my opinion. An honest mistake can be excused, but if they continue to make that mistake then like the dog they should be culled too! As long as you have judges like this judging you're going to continue to have ribbon chaser owners bring culls to trials, for the simple fact they know the cull can place under these guys. If crap shows up crap is what you must place(although it would be nice if AKC allowed us judges the right to not place dogs if there wasn't anything worthy). However I think there's several judges out there that would continue to place crap no matter how great a dog showed up, because they just don't know any better.

[MasonsBeagles]

i read years ago they use to not put places on dogs if they did not perform well at the trial. how many trials have you gone to and dogs couldnt run worth a darn all day but still had a winner.

[big mike 50]

You're not the best until you beat the best!

[hebbsfc]

I like to see a F.C. run in a trial. I feel that most judges do judge what is on the ground and most feel that every dog is even at the beginning of the day. As far as cutting a deal on entry fees, why should a club have to foot the bill for a dog entering a trial F.C. or not. In reality it would just be advertising for that particular F.C. Beagle clubs have a hard enough time making ends meet.

[Casey Harner]

Amen!!! My buddy was coaching a pee wee football team this fall and his defense had 5 shutouts in that many games so he bought all of the defensive players a Gatoraid. The parents of the boys on offense pitched a fit and made the kids on defense give up their Gatoraid. I know this has nothing to do with it but this everyone wins crap is killing America.

Well, defense wins ball games in every sport, but offense does its part too. I wouldn't of cared if the coach would have bought the defense gatorade, but that should go both ways, give the offensive players a little something as well. Just my 02 cents.

[Ridge View]

Hebbsfc it's called incentive! To have a cheaper price for FC entries makes the product more attractive. I agree some clubs have a hard time making ends meet but most are doing just fine.


Fuzz,
Wow! You have made a bold statement here. Some people may get offended by your comments. I say call the culls out and then we can wack them over the head and maybe knock some sense into them. Seriously though you feel very strongly about your opinion give us some names of the culls that are judging. Quite frankly many clubs are using similiar judges throughout the Mid-West and I believe for the right reasons. Therefore, I'm not sure if you are on the right track here.

[mybeagles]

Hebbsfc,

These field champion entries would be additional funds they wouldnt get if the discount wasnt offered. My idea would be to allow FC to run for $2 and Grand FC (10 wins)for free. At $2 a FC if you had an extra 5 entries per class thats another $40 for the club. Doesnt cost the club anything to have a few extra entries. Makes the trial more popular, and generates more pts for the placing hounds.

This is incentive for the FC's, raises the competition level, and might even improve the breed if the higher quality studs could be promoted.

Ron,
The trial in Kentucky where they gave Tyke second was the worst Ive seen to date. If ever a dog DOMINATED a trial it happened that day in plane site while judges watched it on horse back. I was embarassed for the owner of the winning hound. Every single person there knew who won the trial......including the judges. We would have to get past the temptation as judges to give the 2nd place dog a win just because the true winner was already a FC if running FC would gain interest.

Mybeagles

[Bunnyblaster]

Amen!!! My buddy was coaching a pee wee football team this fall and his defense had 5 shutouts in that many games so he bought all of the defensive players a Gatoraid. The parents of the boys on offense pitched a fit and made the kids on defense give up their Gatoraid. I know this has nothing to do with it but this everyone wins crap is killing America.

Well, defense wins ball games in every sport, but offense does its part too. I wouldn't of cared if the coach would have bought the defense gatorade, but that should go both ways, give the offensive players a little something as well. Just my 02 cents.

That right there is part of the problem. I will give you that it is a little bit different in the respect that it's a team sport and it takes the team to win a game but they were trying to give a little something extra for the outstanding performance of the defensive squad. The offense had nothing to do with them putting up 5 shutouts same as the defense probably had nothing to do with the points they put up on the board. I doubt they said hey offense we won the game without you. I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing and rewarding exceptional performance as long as it's done in a tactful manner and not meant to demean or belittle anyone else........in other words sportsmanship. Same as professional sports give awards to the person they feel is the MVP. Some people are better than others and there is nothing wrong with awarding someone for it. Sorry Harner but on this one I think you're just as bad as the everyone wins crap. And for the record I was an average athlete..........I got to watch other people get the special awards and instead of complaining about it I manned up and recognized the fact that they deserved it and in most cases had earned it, I didn't.

[Jamie Rice]

Continuing to run field champions that have watered down titles isn't going to improve things. What's to be accomplished by beating a worthless champ? That's no different than beating a inferior non-champ. Title doesn't make the dog, the dog makes the title. Nevertheless in perfect world where all the champions were the best of the best, lowering entry fees isn't going to get guys to bring them. Way I look at it is if they really wanted to run them price of entry fee isn't going to matter. Case in point our brethren from the north... several CKC trialers continue to run their FTC and last I checked Canadian clubs don't let them enter them for any cheaper. Furthermore AKC isn't going to allow US clubs to differentiate between cost of entry fees just by whether the dog is finished or not. In addition you're opening a can of worms, because we all know Joe Blow with a non-champion is going to complain that he's having to pay more for his entry than Tom, Dick, & Harry with a champion. Even if clubs were able to work things out and no one complained, clubs have to pay $3.50 per entry, thus you at least want to charge more than that. Clubs may not make more money by having more FC ran after they finish, but you at least don't want to lose money because they run.

RidgeView,
I could care less if I've offend someone or not. I've always felt those with guilty conscience are the first to speak up. Sub-par judging isn't just happening in one particular area. I've been from Louisiana to New York and many points in between, various federations/association in between, seasoned houndsman and successful trialers are all stating the same. Judges only standing on paths and scoring front end hounds, judges placing dogs that swing 100+ yards out check, dogs that bark all over the place, backtrack, skirt, run mute, and several other demerits that are severe enough warranting elimination. Large pack trialers and SPO both... Peers from Midwest, UBGF, NEBGF, IBGA, and Large Pack associations as well. Heck witnessed several times myself in Midwest.

Many clubs may be using similar judges, but is that suppose to mean these judges are the best? If you think so then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Several clubs have expressed how they have had to call upteen amount of judges just for one class let alone the whole trial. Sure there's a few good knowledgeable judges on a some classes, but in many cases these clubs are taking what judges they can get. And like it or not they aren't always the best judges. As for naming names... I'm not going to call a specific person out on the internet. If I have something to say to a particular person in I'll say it to their face. Or better yet, I'll do the smartest thing and just not waste my money running under them! I'm sure they won't miss me because fact is most trialers don't want to hear the truth!

[big mike 50]

Amen!!! My buddy was coaching a pee wee football team this fall and his defense had 5 shutouts in that many games so he bought all of the defensive players a Gatoraid. The parents of the boys on offense pitched a fit and made the kids on defense give up their Gatoraid. I know this has nothing to do with it but this everyone wins crap is killing America.

Well, defense wins ball games in every sport, but offense does its part too. I wouldn't of cared if the coach would have bought the defense gatorade, but that should go both ways, give the offensive players a little something as well. Just my 02 cents.

That right there is part of the problem. I will give you that it is a little bit different in the respect that it's a team sport and it takes the team to win a game but they were trying to give a little something extra for the outstanding performance of the defensive squad. The offense had nothing to do with them putting up 5 shutouts same as the defense probably had nothing to do with the points they put up on the board. I doubt they said hey offense we won the game without you. I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing and rewarding exceptional performance as long as it's done in a tactful manner and not meant to demean or belittle anyone else........in other words sportsmanship. Same as professional sports give awards to the person they feel is the MVP. Some people are better than others and there is nothing wrong with awarding someone for it. Sorry Harner but on this one I think you're just as bad as the everyone wins crap. And for the record I was an average athlete..........I got to watch other people get the special awards and instead of complaining about it I manned up and recognized the fact that they deserved it and in most cases had earned it, I didn't.

My buddy is a volunteer assistant defensive coach and told the defensive players before the game if they got another shutout he would buy them all Gatorade out of his own pocket. But to the point of feild champs the example mybeagles gave is exactly what I am talking about. I coach wrestling as well as football and I always try to get a less experienced man to wrestle a better man because it will help them get better. I know trial dogs are fer from pups being trained but as pups I always try to start my dogs with a more experienced dog not only to teach them how to run well but also to guage their progress. If I got whooped everytime by one dog and then got a win against him the next time out it would make that win all the more exciting and I would have something to brag about. Hell, I would be tickled to finish a dog under the way they do things now but it would really be something to beat a handfull of feild champs along the way. JMO.

[Casey Harner]

I agree to keep the defensive team motivated by buying them drinks. But at that age I'd do something for the offense as well. Then you'll have a happy team on both sides. I could see a lil players get both motivated and upset. They might look at it like that they too deserve a prize.

[Bunnyblaster]

Again your point is taken but we're splitting hairs a little bit here just because they are kids. Some win, some lose and some never try. Your comment about making them feel good is the exact point...........and the problem. They earned something too just maybe not the same thing as the defense.

I'm hoping next week when I miss work monday for deer hunting my boss will still pay me like the guys that were there so I don't feel bad. Harner for as much as I know about you from reading your posts on here I like ya, I really do but the attitude you've got about things like this in life are why people feel things like FC titles are "watered down". Again, we're talking about kids in a kids game and buying some gatorade but things like that are where it starts. Then the next time it's a little more, and a little more and they just keep on expecting for the rest of their lives...........deserving or not.

[Casey Harner]

Thanks. I like the way you coach. I coached little league baseball and when we won we took the kids out for rootbeer floats. Its a team effort. Maybe I have an attitude that doesn't fit
well with others but oh well. This is just my opinion.