15+ in dogs and the rules

[weaver240000]

A class for big dogs sounds great. But We cant find judges or time for the classes we got now. Unless you had it on a different day I cant see it doing nothing but dragging out already long trials.

[SilverZuk]

Not a class, a whole new registry that is not breed specific and do not have breed standards.
Think of the time you would save by not having a bench show.

Start a new format that lets you run anything from dachsund to bloodhounds.
It would be exciting to say the least (and I bet most people still run beagles and beagles will be the winning dog).

[chapkosbeagles]

here is a pic of my 15 in males on the left is my 14 7/8 in greenbay shooter and shore acers dinah dog and on the right is my 15 in FLAT lake ogemaw dog man can he run

[ottisdogs]

I agree with both sides but the fact remains if we keep changing the rules where will we be.
I say its time to leve the rules alone just like they are with no more changes. If one wants to run 15+ dogs it is time to start another division. I have had 15+ dogs in the past and had to sale them because of that rule. I think this would be the best solution for everybody. Agree or disagree that is my 2 cents worth.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

THE 15 IN RULE WILL BE CHANGED I DON'T" KNOW WHEN BUT WITH BETTER FOOD AND HEALTH CARE THE BEAGLE IS GROWING LARGER EVERY YEAR. I WILL NOT BREED TO A RUNT, JUST SO MY DOG'S WILL NOT BE BIG. I BREED THE BEST I CAN FIND IN MY OPINION AT LEAST,,, SIZE IS NOT PART OF THE BREED PLANING. IF I FIND A GOOD 15 IN HOUND WITH WHAT I WANT, I USE IT IF I FIND A HOUND 151/2 IN THAT IS BETTERI USE IT .NOT BREEDING HOUNDS BECAUSE OF IT'S SIZE JUST ADD'S TO THE LIST OF CULL'S I HAD RATHER HAVE A BIG OLE GOODIN THAN A LITTLE OLE BADDEN. BUT GOOD LUCK AND--------------
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[SilverZuk]

THE 15 IN RULE WILL BE CHANGED I DON'T" KNOW WHEN BUT WITH BETTER FOOD AND HEALTH CARE THE BEAGLE IS GROWING LARGER EVERY YEAR. I WILL NOT BREED TO A RUNT, JUST SO MY DOG'S WILL NOT BE BIG. I BREED THE BEST I CAN FIND IN MY OPINION AT LEAST,,, SIZE IS NOT PART OF THE BREED PLANING. IF I FIND A GOOD 15 IN HOUND WITH WHAT I WANT, I USE IT IF I FIND A HOUND 151/2 IN THAT IS BETTERI USE IT .NOT BREEDING HOUNDS BECAUSE OF IT'S SIZE JUST ADD'S TO THE LIST OF CULL'S I HAD RATHER HAVE A BIG OLE GOODIN THAN A LITTLE OLE BADDEN. BUT GOOD LUCK AND--------------
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

So you are saying guys running 13" dogs will eventualy be running 15" dogs with the same blood lines?
If they would have fed those dogs better they would have been 15"?

Dogs are what you breed them to be.
If you breed them big, you will have big dogs.
If you breed them small, you will have small dogs.

The purpose of a rabbit dog is to pursue a rabbit to the gun.
The size, way, shape, and form is up to you.
A die hard rabbit hunter wants a dog that will consistently circle a rabbit in any/all conditions as long as it takes with as few losses as possible. Just keep that rabbit loping along to get a shot.
Speed is not always an asset. Around here, it puts too much pressure on rabbits and they will break out of their cirlce or hit a hole. Run with some medium speed dogs and see how many more rabbits you kill.
Bigger dogs are generally faster, too much speed is a fault.

[hounddog]

SilverZuk, again, that is your opinion or what you like. I personally have no use for a medium speed hound. They bore me but I don't kill but a hand full of rabbits a year. I field trial and a medium speed hound get only one thing to look at, the rear end of the rest of the pack.
ONCE AGAIN, IT IS A MATTER OF WHAT YOU LIKE. PERIOD

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

THE 15 IN RULE WILL BE CHANGED I DON'T" KNOW WHEN BUT WITH BETTER FOOD AND HEALTH CARE THE BEAGLE IS GROWING LARGER EVERY YEAR. I WILL NOT BREED TO A RUNT, JUST SO MY DOG'S WILL NOT BE BIG. I BREED THE BEST I CAN FIND IN MY OPINION AT LEAST,,, SIZE IS NOT PART OF THE BREED PLANING. IF I FIND A GOOD 15 IN HOUND WITH WHAT I WANT, I USE IT IF I FIND A HOUND 151/2 IN THAT IS BETTERI USE IT .NOT BREEDING HOUNDS BECAUSE OF IT'S SIZE JUST ADD'S TO THE LIST OF CULL'S I HAD RATHER HAVE A BIG OLE GOODIN THAN A LITTLE OLE BADDEN. BUT GOOD LUCK AND--------------
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

So you are saying guys running 13" dogs will eventualy be running 15" dogs with the same blood lines?
If they would have fed those dogs better they would have been 15"?

Dogs are what you breed them to be.
If you breed them big, you will have big dogs.
If you breed them small, you will have small dogs.

The purpose of a rabbit dog is to pursue a rabbit to the gun.
The size, way, shape, and form is up to you.
A die hard rabbit hunter wants a dog that will consistently circle a rabbit in any/all conditions as long as it takes with as few losses as possible. Just keep that rabbit loping along to get a shot.
Speed is not always an asset. Around here, it puts too much pressure on rabbits and they will break out of their cirlce or hit a hole. Run with some medium speed dogs and see how many more rabbits you kill.
Bigger dogs are generally faster, too much speed is a fault.

Zuk,
Speed is only a fault when the hound cant hang on it. Each to his own.Me personally i like run to catch hounds.

[wvduece]

statr a new registery call it the outlaw class n run what ya brung bet you would see some mitey fine RABBIT DAWGS jb i had a 1/2 beagle n 1/2 cur once that stood about 17 in n could run the guts out of a rabbit n do it right fanstatic gun dog buddy of mine has a speedy sport bred male that stands about 17 in or better n can run the fur off a rabbit pleasure to watch himrun a rabbit big ole loud booming mouth good gun dog jb

[SilverZuk]

I agree, but understand what was the thought process when making the breed standard.
There was a reason for a 15" limit.
There were plenty of other running hounds at the time. The people that created the standard chose 15" for a reason.
Also, you have to remember that those standards were written by a select few to apply to the best beagles at that time.
(If you read my posts in the show beagle section, you will see how I feel about the breed standard. You will see that I don't beleive the current interpretation of the breed standard is best for field performance.)

I run a fairly fast style dog (ARHA LP). They are rough at times, over run, and not the best rabbit dogs out there.
I am trying to get something a more accurate with a bigger nose, but still keep the intensity that I like.
The end result will likely be a slower, cleaner hound. You can't have it all, and I am still looking for what really suits me.

People want rules changed to benefit them and the dog they are running at the time.
Guys run big dogs because they are generally faster. Obviously guys that run hare prefer a bigger faster dog for circling a hare more quickly and fording through deep snow. It makes perfect sense why people want larger dogs, but you entered a game knowing the rules. Then when they are not in your favor you want them changed.

Run what you like, but don't bring something in under a certain set of rules and complain to change them to benefit you.
I entered in the same game, under the same rules, and am in compliance.
Now change the rules to your advantage.

I don't buy the feed and medicine arguement - you breed big dogs, you get big dogs.

[SilverZuk]

start a new registery call it the outlaw class n run what ya brung bet you would see :

That is what I'm talking about.

A friend of mine had an english coon hound that would run rabbits. The english was fast, accurate, and 70 pounds would plow right through brush.

A guy that lives near me says the best rabbit dogs he ever had were beagle bred to fiest, then back to beagles.
Lets open it up and see who really has a rabbit dog.
Then we don't have to be held back by standards.

[wvduece]

you wouldnt have to start a new registery just start having a few competition hunts with the oversize dogs n buy a 50 dollar trophy n ya would need help to carry it around, put your name on it jb won out law class at wherever charge a lil to enter your dog just that simple jb

[CHRIS WHITT]

I agree that they are rules and if you want to play the game you must follow them.BUT most dogs are getting bigger ,This Coming straight from the Vet's mouth and he was not just talking about Beagles he was refering to all breeds.If someone passes on a breeding to a over sized dog because he is worried that the pups may be over and he ends up breeding to a lesser dog because of his 14in size then in my opinion they are hurting the breed.

[Free Bird]

NKC/ARHA rules already allow dogs up to 16 inches to compete in it's Big Pack Division.

[briarshakersdaddy]

check and see how many over 15" field champions there. Would realy suprise you how many there are. Have a dog a little over do not take him to trials because of that has more hunt than 98% of the beagles I have seen. Can run a rabbit as good as any dog I have seen. will throw both 13" and 15" dogs. his daddy before him would throw both with one going over once in a great while. Well worth having to cull one ever now and then to pass on his hunt, speed and desire. some of the big name studs of the past were over 15". Have a Little female that is 13" or a hare over according to who measures her has wins in 15" class and places in 13" class so it seem's to me that size don't make a whole lot of diffrence because most of her trails have been against dogs 1'' to 2" bigger than her. The rules state 15". Got to live by the rules. Even if I don't think a 1/2 inch or so is going to make a difference. How many times you see a dog at a trail that you think is over does that dog have a advantage and win all the time. NO! Just have fun and go by the rules what fun are there in bending the rules just to win. What next give them human groth hormones to make them hunt harder or run faster. Win Lose or draw i enjoy going to trails just to meet new beaglers and talk dogs with them. Don't get me wrong I like to win as well as anyone just won't kill me if I don't.