Why are pups so hard to raise anymore....

bill (flint river ) · Post by **bill (flint river )** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:54 pm

are the pups foamy at the mouth???

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:19 pm

Dave,
The old books and masters say, "To breed in, is good for the blood but plays the devil with the flesh". This is to say, where one is weak, the other must be strong...tho it's best if both were as close to your Ideal hound as possible & the closer you breed, the many generations behind must be top hounds. This pays no respect to hounds on any part, but in all things...

Many choose wrong or one has tried to slip one through the fence in past generations but, in breeding hounds, we're mostly paid back and with interest, on what we've selected and bred from...

Windkist · Post by **Windkist** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:30 pm

dave404 wrote:Folks, down to 2 now, lost another today right after watching it suck, i got her in the house too. I cant believe otherwise that pups that die like this has something wrong when born.
I used to raise hogs and read an article that purer the bloodline, the resistance to diseases and so forth went down. maybe why mutts and other mixed breeds seem to raise pups better.

S.R.Patch , i had an Akita a few yrs. ago and she had 10 her 1st litter.
she would nurse 5 at a time , raised all 10 of them.

Good answers from everyone, and a great board !!

Is there any chance she is laying on them? Another thought is Herpes which can cause puppies to die for no apparent reason. With Herpes you need to raise the temperature of the area up to 85 degrees. I think that because this has happened before that perhaps just get your local vet to do a quick Necropsy on the newest dead one. If you still have it don't freeze it but, just put it in a refridgerator and take it in. I think in your situation it would be nice to know the cause of this.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ca ... ction.html

Leah

dave404 · Post by **dave404** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:55 am

Thanks Leah, This is something to think about. Unfortunately the pup is disposed of. If she loses another, i will definitely call the vet and see if he will do the test.
No ,she hasnt laid on any.

nutbush · Post by **nutbush** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:16 am

Honeypot,,,well let's see...I have never kicked a dog,,,I have beat one for running a deer one time. I dont' think that my Grandfather left too much of a bad impression on me

I think your one of those idiots that should go to the PETA boards and hang out with them. Take ole pinky, rinky, and stinky with you too. I'm pretty sure they dont' know what a rabbit is and those pretty little bells and ribbons in their hair might get caught up in briars if they even thought about looking for ole bunny.

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:00 am

nutbush wrote:Honeypot,,,well let's see...I have never kicked a dog,,,I have beat one for running a deer one time. I dont' think that my Grandfather left too much of a bad impression on me I think your one of those idiots that should go to the PETA boards and hang out with them. Take ole pinky, rinky, and stinky with you too. I'm pretty sure they dont' know what a rabbit is and those pretty little bells and ribbons in their hair might get caught up in briars if they even thought about looking for ole bunny.

So because I was disgusted by your post about your grandfather beating a dog into convulsions and making him live on scraps I am now PETA. HA!!
YOU are THE IDIOT that posted this:
"My Grandfather kept him in the backyard, and ate nothing but scraps. This dog would make my Grandfather soo mad sometimes that he would go out and kick the living #$%^ out of him and the dog would go into convulsions. After a minute or 2 he would come bac to his senses and be normal again. Saying all this to say that that dog never had any dog food or shots. Heck,,,he ate soo many fish and chicken bones that my Grandfather just knew he would die."

I think this is offensive to anyone who cares about the hounds they raise.

Emery · Post by **Emery** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:29 am

OK you two, you are getting off topic. Take your bickering between yourselves to e-mails or PM's.

I don't abuse my dogs, and I don't like it when I see that someone else does. But this isn't the forum for that.

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:41 pm

[quote="Emery"]OK you two, you are getting off topic. Take your bickering between yourselves to e-mails or PM's.
quote]

No thanks, lets just end it here, fine by me!

Windkist · Post by **Windkist** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:53 pm

I certainly don't want to keep this going but, its our duty and ethically correct to teach our children proper animal husbandry practices and to teach them kindness with animals and especially with other people. Lets just end this by saying that nobody here is condoning kicking dogs or beating them. (I hope) They are here for us to enjoy and own not to abuse ;-)

Leah

nutbush · Post by **nutbush** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:55 am

Well,,,if you take the pretty little bells out of your eyes,,,you will see that I WASNT condoning beating a dog,,,but I bet there are more than not that have one time or another especially when it came to running off game,,,they might not want to admit it...heck i did it at a trial one time,,,,he didnt run a deer anymore,,,and about the table scraps,,,that was my whole debate anyhow,,,that dog had table scraps,,,not this high price dog food,,,,and alot of my dogs in the past lived off of table scraps,,,does that make me a MEAN

I bet ole rinky and stinky have never had table scraps,,,all they get is filet mignon,,,,but hey whatever you can afford,,,i feed mostly dog food,,,,but,,,uh oh,,,,im a meany now,,,,I FEED TABLE SCRAPS TOO!!!.

DRamey · Post by **DRamey** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:10 am

Feed is a little more on-topic, so I will expand on what I said earlier and ignore the disagreement that is off-topic. I feed my hounds everything that is edible that my family doesn't eat, but they have to wait until after "leftover day" to get them. Cindy, I am as conscientious as to what goes into those scraps as I am about every other aspect of my hounds' lives. I only own 3, and there are occasions when my hounds don't get any dry feed at all for a day because of the leftovers. I don't worm nearly as often as some of the beaglers in my area and my hounds' teeth and coats are exceptional and their energy levels are through the roof. They eat everything from steamed broccoli and carrots to the fat trimmed off steaks to cold cuts that we didn't notice were left in the bottom of the meat drawer. I know that many of you have way too many hounds to be able to do this, but I know of fox hunters in the past who fed restaurant scraps and had very healthy hounds that lived long lives. I wouldn't do that because of my lack of control over what goes in to them then, but I have to conclude that the variety in people food is not only alright for hounds, but in some ways an advantage. Oh yeah, everybody play nice!

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:56 am

I have no problem with a few table scraps in addition to a regular dog food diet.
Our Beagles get treats of fish (boneless) or beef, etc. along with their well balanced diet. My problem with the origional table scraps comments was that it was bragging that the dog lived off fish and chicken bones and occasional scraps only...

Bones are good for dogs but NOT COOKED BONES and certainly not those fish bones that are more like fishhooks. Good thing it was an unliked dog that ate those kind of bones because I am sure if any one of us gave one of our appreciated field or show Beagles one fishbone ever we'd be in for a huge vet bill.

That's just Murphys Law.

There are a lot of young people on this board and it is important for them to learn proper care of animals from us adults.

Also, someone please explain to me how beating a dog that ran a deer teaches him/her not to run deer??? I think the dog only understands that when he returns to Master he gets a beating. How do you think the dog knows what you are beating him for so "after the fact."???

dave404 · Post by **dave404** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:12 am

Folks, PLEASE,PLEASE stop the arguing. I started this topic trying to find info on why puppys are hard to raise in hopes of some good info,which i appreciate everyone's replies and am grateful for a great board we have here.

It's very disgusting to see a new post and when we open it in hope of having more info on the TOPIC, only to find someone has completely left the main subject and are talking about something not even referring to the subject.

As one old timer always said : Lets stay in the cornfield until we get it finished and Then we will go to the beans.

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:43 am

Luckily we had no serious puppy issues raising three showbred beagle litters this summer. All beagles were bred and whelped in the house, all pups delivered free whelped with some assistance when needed. All beagles fed a top quality diet of Innova Evo Premium Dog Food. Bitches supplemented with calcium and "all they can eat" during nursing.
One pup bottle fed, would have died, is now a GORGEOUS puppy in a great pet home.

I sleep in the same room with my litters for the first week and have saved many a pup being laid on by a completely "out" snoring Mom. I think pups get suffocated accidently much more often than people want to believe or admit.

Out of 17 puppies we only lost two that were breech and took too long to pull out......both from small 13" bitches. Both pups over 11 oz. Most of my pups are 10 oz on average.

ked · Post by **ked** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:58 am

Because they are treated like humans and not dogs.
I believe someone touched a little on that earlier. By design the strong should live and the weak should not. As we intervene the weak continue to live and breed passing that weakness through generations. Also momma knows best alot of times but once again man intervenes to save the day. I am guilty.
Raising a sorry momma's pup on a bottle, though she may be good in the field, she is not a good mother. A breeder should look at all things in a dog with performance being a major player but not the only thing that defines breedable.