Why is there so much AKC predjudice?

[S.R.Patch]

So the question still remains, what's the difference between the hounds, for I've seen the same thing done in all that Rosewood pointed out, in all the registries...Patch

[bowhunter59]

there r god dogs akc and bad ones good grade dogs and bad ones u get a cros trogether that will whip the others consisteanatly and i bet all yall will own one akc or not i got 1 dog akc right now and i have the best group of dogs i've ever had not because they are grade or akc but just thats how it worked out i too would lkike all akc for u can easily get more but i have had folks consider giving me 4 figures for my male and he is grade all the way!

[YGD]

I JUST HUNT , I DON'T TRIAL & I DON'T SELL DOGS. I HAVE ONE DOG WITH PAPERS ,BUT HE CAN'T READ SO I TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. IF I BREED A BITCH IT'S BECAUSE I WANT A PUP OR TWO. MY DOGS BRING THE RABBIT AROUND & THAT'S WHAT I REQUIRE THEM TO DO. I DON'T NEED NO AKC,UKC OR AHRA SUPER DOGS FOR THAT. I BREED DOGS WITH TRAITS I LIKE. SOMETIME TO GET A LITTLE MORE SPEED OR A BIGGER NOSE. I CAN'T AFFORD A SUPER DOG SO I DON'T TRY TO SELL ANY. A LOT OF MY FRIENDS ARE RABBIT HUNTERS & HAVE PUPS OUT OF MY DOGS THAT THEY ARE TICKLED PINK WITH. IF THEY ARE HEALTHY, HAPPY, GOOD HUNTING DOGS & MIND PRETTY GOOD THATS MY KIND OF HOUND. OF COURSE I'VE ONLY BEEN AT IT FOR 40 YEARS. BUT LIKE THEY SAY A.K.C. = $$$$$ BUT IF A DOG IS GOOD OR NOT IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE HAS PAPERS
BUNNYBUSTER

[AlabamaSwamper]

I'm in the same boat as Blackdirt. If a dog isn't AKC then you can't sell a pup for more than $50 and a running dog for more than $100. I ain't in it for the money but when I sell a pup I would like to try and break even or atleast get close to breaking even. I agree that papers don't run rabbits and I have two grade dogs and 6 AKC dogs and one of my two best is grade.

[PACKMAN II]

I have AKC hounds but papers are not required for a hound to have a bed at my house. I personally think the big deal is folks want the pedigrees so they can say ole blue had a Grandad that was a world champ and his father is a Grand Bench Champion. Truth is unless people actually saw the hounds back in a pedigree run they are only breeding the name. I call this Fad breeding or breeding what is hot. You never hear anyone say i bred to joe's male cause he is the best i have ever seen and he has a freezer full of rabbits to prove it but you will always hear pups for sale out of "AKC International coast to coast BNCH LP PP GRCH HOF etc... Joe The great"
I keep patches and it is the same with them everyone wants to know what dogs are in the pedigree and my answer usually is. The pedigree is full of rabbit dogs not world champions and yes the are AKC reg born with a fork in one hand and a knife in the other. (LOL)

Brian

[Beagleman973]

Fad breeding is to breed to what ever is popular at the time. But how you can say using a pedigree to select your breeding is fad is beyond me. To use an example someone else used, you've bred Line A most of your life, but now you need to add more speed. You do your research and see Line C consistently bred more speed. You can do this by looking at pedigrees, reading back articles on how Line C performed, and talking to others that have seen maybe the originator of Line C perform.

Next you would look for proven Line A and Line C crosses. How did they perform. DId that cross create the characteristics that you were looking for. Once again old articles, people that have owned that cross, etc.

No I may not have ever seen the orginal Line A or Line C dog perform, but by looking at their pedigree and champions following the original cross I can see if they are producing.

If that is a fad count me in! Breeding to old Joe's hound down the road, who though he might be a great dog, is nothing but a gamble. He may not be able to reproduce if you do not what is behind him, unless the owner kept detailed records. That would be like throwing a bucket of paint on the wall and hoping that some sticks.

You don't always have to see that particular hound perform for the pedigrees to be helpful. It's like the stockmarket, you look for trends and past performance!

[PACKAMN]

Beagleman I don't dispute what you are saying. My point is just like you stated you look at the pedigree and basically see what champions are being produced. The odds are that those dogs are being bred to much more than the rest so there will easily be mores champs show up in the pedigree and therefore create more interest to breed to that hound and with enough breeding some goodones will show up! Even breeding like you are stating is still a big gamble even though you know exactly what you are breeding to. We all breed dogs to suit the idea we each have, trying to accomplish what we want in a beagle. What i am saying is does this make it right and does it improve the breed. I breed to rabbit dogs not titles of dogs ancestors. My way may be totally wrong and backward as I look at dogs from a hunters view not what i think it takes to compete in a certain class or format!

Is there really a difference and i don't want to ruffle feathers but i have always felt that hunters breed dogs to accomplish a task and that trialers bred dogs that would perform according to the trial format they liked to compete in. Don't bash me as this is not meant to downgrade anyone and how each breeds is non of my business i just this kind of all tied together.

Brian

[Beagleman973]

Brian,

I do agree with you about the number of times bred, and you are right that does distort things a bit, but compared to no knowledge it's the best we have to go by.

By the way, I'm just a hunter too. I don't trial, but do know what type of dog I want and trials do let you see more dogs than otherwise.

There is a lot of breeding to win the current "fad" in trials, but sometimes this does result in good things.

I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong. Especially if you know what is behind the hunting dogs that you are breeding. Way back when I did the same as you, I started linebreeding because I got tired of having very good dogs, but not being able to reproduce the same. Some just didn't pass on the genes, but without a pedigree I had no way of knowing.

To Turbo...

Sorry if we pulled your post away from what you intended. I have no doubt you have good dogs and the pups will probably be the same. Unfortunately you will probably have trouble selling them as long as ARHA and others are open registries where you can single register dogs. I see a lot of ARHA trial results where it says unknown sire and dam. Buying pups is a risk anyway, and a lot of people are afraid to take a chance on pups when they don't know what behind them for several generations. And when most hear they are registered that way, even though you can show a pedigree, they still don't feel comfortable with the registry.

It's a shame, because there are a lot of great dogs and pups that don't get the credit or chance they should. I would continue breeding and lobby to have the registries closed, I think that would improve the registry's acceptance.

John

[Little Dog]

Let me try this again!
Years ago as a child the people I knew would say you don’t want an AKC dog because they were breed to run too slow. Were a majority of the AKC dogs breed like this 30 or 40 years ago?

I know AKC dogs are not like this now, but what about all those years ago? Maybe some oldtimers can give me some history.

[MasonsBeagles]

Well guys I had to say something. lol

I have mostly AKC hounds four of them and one grade. The grade dog is 3/4 AKC but doesnt count. I got back into beagles last year and wanted all AKC dogs. One reason I do like looking back on the pedigrees and reading up on the ancestors of my hounds. The other most important reason is that with an AKC registered dog you have more options as far as field trialing. AKC, ARHA, UKC and so on. THat is the main reason. I will say that the most important reason is to look at the productivity of a line of hounds. THere are good grade dogs producing well but you get more consistency with the AKC or from what I have seen. Know I am not totally an AKC person. I want a good dog so I will keep AKC hounds and acquire super grade dogs as they come along.

Note: Some of the best hounds I have ever seen though have been the AKC hounds outcrossed with grade dogs.

The best rule of thumb is breed the best to the best and hope for the best!

[Novice]

I trhink you just started to touch on the real reason. First thing you need to do Is to look at the area where you live and are trying to sell pups. What are the majority of trials held in that area? If they are AKC then there is probably the single most important reason. You said you breed to Syrus. I believe he is registered in both registries. So 'm assuming that youre female is not .
But along with all of the other reasons the one single most important factor to me would be what are the most availabel trial formats in the area where I live. I know that is the one reason I have AKC registered beagles. there are NO other trials within a two to three hour drive. So in order to be abel to go to trials without driving 5 to 10 hours I just keep AKC dogs also to avoid problems with mixing up registries it is just easier for me anyway. I do have one Dog that is UKC registered a Portuguese pointer. And I like the registry very much but again No trials for beagles in My area of the country. Good hunting and tight lines

[Toad]

"I ain't in it for the money", "papers don't run rabbits", "my dogs can't read". You can say these until you're blue in the face, but all these phrases don't change the fact that WHEN you sell a grade dog you're lucky to get $50-$100 for it. It doesn't really matter if it's right or wrong to you, it doesn't change the fact that AKC translates to demand and more $$$$. I've already went down the "ain't in it for the money" road. I agree, you may not be wanting to make a living from it, but if you have a litter of 8 pups and you want to keep 2, I guarantee everybody would rather get $150/pup vs. $25-$50/pup (that is if you can even find someone to take em!!!)

[Latimer Beagles]

I would think the reason is that it is not a closed registry, i have seen hounds registered just because the look like beagles but you are not clear on there background. I have seen hounds registered in ARHA as beagles and be part Fiest, or Jack Russell but the looked and run like beagles,
maybe this is the reason some breeders or purchasers dont trust the breeding on the hound when they are buying it.
Just a comment and maybe will help you on your question.

[bowhunter59]

ALL OF YALL who can only get 50 or 100 out of good graqde dogs bring them to me i can get 200 easy with a good grade dog i got 1 grade wouldnt take any of ur money for!he dies here!

[Alabama John]

Little Dog, You are right! back then the trials were brace trials and the emphasis was on how close the dog ran the line. They were bred to run closer and closer and thus slower and slower.

Interesting, when faster dog trials came along that required much faster dogs, many folks that wanted to compete found great running grade dogs that the owners had been breeding for generations to be used to hunt with and they had never bought into the slow and closer dogs and trials.

Those grade dogs were bought and the big name kennel or trial competitors magically had akc papers on them and now that line of dogs that were slow, could really smoke a rabbit and win in the new faster format. It happened so fast, over a short period of time, so, there was not time to breed the slow close dogs back up to be fast, it was obvious and laughed about in beagle circles.

This was a common shortcut.

That's why I like ARHA and UKC, there is the dog, register it! No Bull!!!